[pclayton]

Evil Phil is thinking about a 4♦ psyche, but at the table he'd probably just bid 6♥.

[jdonn]

I like 6♥ direct.

[mikeh]

My call over 3♥ is a natural, forcing 4♦.

I don't think it is close. With luck, partner will sign off in 4♥, and maybe now we get to play there, as each opp is looking at a horrendous diamond break. At worst, partner raises... maybe even with a (shortness-showing) black cue... over which I will sign off in 5♥... I cannot construct a hand on which partner will override my decision, and it would take a very confident and perceptive opp to risk assuming that I have psyched my void.

Oh, and if LHO surprises me by bidding 4♠♠ into the teeth of my forcing bid in a suit where he has length and strength, I have directed the lead, and rendered any attempt by RHO to show diamonds impossible... any diamond bid by either opp is now a cue bid.

Edit: on looking at the last few posts, I see that Phil almost but not quite found the right call.... Phil... it ain't evil... it's just imaginative

[jdonn]

I am shocked you so clearly think any call can be certainly right, especially a psych I have always agreed doubling shows takeout of hearts, so since it will go double pass pass, isn't 4♦ anti-preemptive?

[cherdano]

I wish I had another account with which I would make the following post in order to stir some discussion:

Quote

I will just bid 4♥ and pass if they only bid game. Game bids over 3H P 4H are so wide-ranging that they might well play 4S+2 or 5D+1 or even 5D+2. They won't sell out to 5♥ with a void opposite a singleton, and I don't want to push them to slam when I know that the black cards are onside for them.

I wouldn't want to make the post with my own account since I don't fully agree with the strategy, I think bidding 5♥ or 6♥ (my choice) has too much upside: It may be a good save against game, it may
push them to 6♠ by LHO down one after my Lightner double, or otherwise induce them to make a mistake

But I do think bidding 4♥ and passing is much better than bidding 4♦, which doesn't work against the opponents I usually play against on BBO: They know 5♦ over 4♦ is natural, and they know it has a higher minimum than 5♦ over 4♥ (since LHO could pass and balance 5♦ with a minimal hand), and they know that a double of 4♦ is takeout of hearts, and that double-then-5♦ shows a strong flexible hand.
True, there are some opponents against which 4♦ may be a good bid, but they have to be
1. good enough to bid slam over 4♥ on a pure value-auction, and
2. bad enough not to know how to handle a baby-psych.

[Echognome]

cherdano, on Aug 28 2008, 09:05 AM, said:

2. bad enough not to know how to handle a baby-psych.

I more-or-less agree with your post, but take umbrage at calling 4♦ a baby psych.

To me a baby psych is for auctions like 1♥ - Dbl - 1♠.

I'm sure the semantics police might be called, but I wouldn't put this psych into the "baby-psych" category, for reasons laid out by Mikeh in handling it.

[crazy4hoop]

Now? You thank the bridge gods that you're gonna be on lead. So it's pass or double. Both opponents may be void in hearts and your diamond void means declarer probably can't get to hand to hook you out of the ♠K if the Ace hits in dummy unless they have the ♣A, which is probably not a favorite given the 5-level takeout double. Sounds like declarer is 4-5 or 4-6 (maybe 5-6 but doubt it) which means you must have a club trick if you lead one right now to go with either a trump trick if they're locked in dummy or a diamond ruff. It also means that declarer has at least 3 clubs so if they put you the test (easy hand for you - not a test!) by ducking trick one with Jxx clubs in hand, you just continue with the queen, allowing partner to ruff if they try to play a third club. I guess we better light it up and track the ♣K.

[pclayton]

cherdano, on Aug 28 2008, 09:05 AM, said:

I wish I had another account with which I would make the following post in order to stir some discussion:

Quote

I will just bid 4♥ and pass if they only bid game. Game bids over 3H P 4H are so wide-ranging that they might well play 4S+2 or 5D+1 or even 5D+2. They won't sell out to 5♥ with a void opposite a singleton, and I don't want to push them to slam when I know that the black cards are onside for them.

I wouldn't want to make the post with my own account since I don't fully agree with the strategy, I think bidding 5♥ or 6♥ (my choice) has too much upside: It may be a good save against game, it may
push them to 6♠ by LHO down one after my Lightner double, or otherwise induce them to make a mistake

But I do think bidding 4♥ and passing is much better than bidding 4♦, which doesn't work against the opponents I usually play against on BBO: They know 5♦ over 4♦ is natural, and they know it has a higher minimum than 5♦ over 4♥ (since LHO could pass and balance 5♦ with a minimal hand), and they know that a double of 4♦ is takeout of hearts, and that double-then-5♦ shows a strong flexible hand.
True, there are some opponents against which 4♦ may be a good bid, but they have to be
1. good enough to bid slam over 4♥ on a pure value-auction, and
2. bad enough not to know how to handle a baby-psych.

4♦ can easily work, I don't care how well you're prepared for it. You think LHO is going to make a 'flexible' double and pull to 5♦ looking at 5 of them?

Honestly I didn't have the stones to make the call, but Mike convinced me.

[jdonn]

pclayton, on Aug 28 2008, 07:29 PM, said:

4♦ can easily work, I don't care how well you're prepared for it. You think LHO is going to make a 'flexible' double and pull to 5♦ looking at 5 of them?

No, his partner will pass the double, or bid diamonds himself if opener bids 4♥. Seriously, wtp?

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Aug 28 2008, 05:00 PM, said:

pclayton, on Aug 28 2008, 07:29 PM, said:

4♦ can easily work, I don't care how well you're prepared for it. You think LHO is going to make a 'flexible' double and pull to 5♦ looking at 5 of them?

No, his partner will pass the double, or bid diamonds himself if opener bids 4♥. Seriously, wtp?

Well, there's some contradiction here. Is RHO going to auto-pass 4♦ with 4? with 5 holding four spades? Since LHO might have the 'flexible' double, LHO isn't exactly promising great diamonds. Holding diamond length, 'might' RHO be a little unsure about their agreements and the meaning of double?

I mean, why should we ever psyche if the opponents are always too clever to figure it out?

[the hog]

han, on Aug 28 2008, 09:39 PM, said:

Depends on the opponents. If I thought that 5H would likely win it then I would try that, else 6H. If I do bid 5H then I am bidding 6H next.

I don't think that you'll often get to play 4H and I don't think that 4H followed by 5H is likely to work this time.

Late to this thread, but agree with Han's comment here. The quality and nature of the opponents is really important before deciding what to bid.

[CSGibson]

I'm bidding 4 diamonds, passing any undoubled contract of ours and correcting all doubled contracts to hearts (I love being invulnerable). Probably wouldn't work against experienced opponents, but

A.) I get the diamond lead I always wanted against a spade contract, and

B.) I might confuse the opps into missing their slam, if they have one.


Edit: I just saw that the merits of a 4 diamond call have been debated already. It's still my vote.

[nige1]

Jlall, on Aug 27 2008, 11:45 PM, said:

Kxx KQT9xx --- KQxx
w/r imps. Partner opens 3H(!!) and RHO passes.
Your plan for the auction?

IMO 4♦ = 10, 4♣ = 9, 4♥ = 8, 6♥ = 7, _P = 6, 5♥ = 5.
Even if 4♦ or 4♣ do no positive good, they may prevent partner giving opponents a ruff and a sluff on the opening lead

[mike777]

umm?


I have grave doubts on giving a psyche bid a ten .... 4d ......
Given 4c I assume is rkc for many experts that seems like a psyche......
That leaves 4h or 5H....or I guess 6h.

Hope we see whole deal...soon

I was a 4h and 5h bidder.........pass...

edit: my partners bid 6h over 5s?