[pclayton]

Here's a pet peeve I have about 'travelers' in a club game.

There is one line for the contract and result. The normal protocol for writing:


The contract of 4S down 1 is:

"4S-1"

However, the proper way to write four spades with an overtrick is:

"4S +5"

Doesn't this seem inconsistent to you?


I would think that

4S + 1
4S =
4S -1

would be more consistent. Accidentally I have written 4S + 3 (as 4S with three overtricks) much to the chastisement of the North at the next table and the director. These are the same genre of players that go ballistic when I score in pen however

[manudude03]

First I've seen or read anyone say it should be scored that way. I've always been taught that "4 spades making with an overtrick" is written as 4S+1. However, in my club, what a lot of people do is write the contract down and rather than say how many overtricks/undertricks they made, they simply say how many tricks they made. That should also be clear.

I can imagine that it might be slightly more frustrating when you play very well to get a 2S+2 and then the next table assumes you only just made it. I hope the director asks for verification if he sees that and +170 in the score.

Luckily the manual travellers are beginning to phase out and BridgeMates brought in (and they score it as 4S+3, not 4S+7).

[FrancesHinden]

pclayton, on May 12 2008, 04:44 PM, said:

However, the proper way to write four spades with an overtrick is:

"4S +5"

This only seems to be the 'proper' way in the US (and possibly Canada as well?)
Everywhere else I've played either writes 4S-1, 4S= (or with a tick symbol), 4S+1; or puts the number of tricks 4S 9, 4S 10, 4S 11.

Bridgemates have an option (set globally for the event by the TD) either to enter the number of tricks (9, 10 or 11) or to enter the result (-1, = , +1).

[hrothgar]

FrancesHinden, on May 12 2008, 07:05 PM, said:

pclayton, on May 12 2008, 04:44 PM, said:

However, the proper way to write four spades with an overtrick is:

"4S +5"

This only seems to be the 'proper' way in the US (and possibly Canada as well?)
Everywhere else I've played either writes 4S-1, 4S= (or with a tick symbol), 4S+1; or puts the number of tricks 4S 9, 4S 10, 4S 11.

Bridgemates have an option (set globally for the event by the TD) either to enter the number of tricks (9, 10 or 11) or to enter the result (-1, = , +1).

I have every expectation that the ACBL will consider adopting BridgeMates within the next 20 years or so...

[mycroft]

If the ticket says "Made/Down", then that's what you put in:
4S 5
4S 4
4S . 1
4S . 2
...

4S+5 means an invalid score to me. 4S make 5 is 650.
so I write 4S+1 on my card, and fill in the ticket 4S make 5.

[jdonn]

pclayton, on May 12 2008, 10:44 AM, said:

Here's a pet peeve I have about 'travelers' in a club game.

There is one line for the contract and result. The normal protocol for writing:


The contract of 4S down 1 is:

"4S-1"

However, the proper way to write four spades with an overtrick is:

"4S +5"

Doesn't this seem inconsistent to you?


I would think that

4S + 1
4S =
4S -1

would be more consistent. Accidentally I have written 4S + 3 (as 4S with three overtricks) much to the chastisement of the North at the next table and the director. These are the same genre of players that go ballistic when I score in pen however

I think there was a thread about this in the past. It's strictly either a California or Socal thing, in most/all other places in the US players write 4♠ +1 for an overtrick. Alternatively they have travellers with one line for the contract, one line for the tricks taken. So basically you are the weirdos, and I got out while I could

[pclayton]

jdonn, on May 12 2008, 08:41 AM, said:

pclayton, on May 12 2008, 10:44 AM, said:

Here's a pet peeve I have about 'travelers' in a club game.

There is one line for the contract and result. The normal protocol for writing:


The contract of 4S down 1 is:

"4S-1"

However, the proper way to write four spades with an overtrick is:

"4S +5"

Doesn't this seem inconsistent to you? 


I would think that

4S + 1
4S =
4S -1

would be more consistent. Accidentally I have written 4S + 3 (as 4S with three overtricks) much to the chastisement of the North at the next table and the director. These are the same genre of players that go ballistic when I score in pen however 

I think there was a thread about this in the past. It's strictly either a California or Socal thing, in most/all other places in the US players write 4♠ +1 for an overtrick. Alternatively they have travellers with one line for the contract, one line for the tricks taken. So basically you are the weirdos, and I got out while I could

Once a fruit or nut, always a fruit or nut.

[skjaeran]

FrancesHinden, on May 12 2008, 06:05 PM, said:

pclayton, on May 12 2008, 04:44 PM, said:

However, the proper way to write four spades with an overtrick is:

"4S +5"

This only seems to be the 'proper' way in the US (and possibly Canada as well?)
Everywhere else I've played either writes 4S-1, 4S= (or with a tick symbol), 4S+1; or puts the number of tricks 4S 9, 4S 10, 4S 11.

Bridgemates have an option (set globally for the event by the TD) either to enter the number of tricks (9, 10 or 11) or to enter the result (-1, = , +1).

It's always been the correct way in Sweden too, much to our amusement here in Norway. Here it's standard to write the number of tricks, though - not -/=/+. That is if you make an overtrick in 4♠ we write 11 on the traveller. (Some use the international 'standard', and there's no confusion with that.) On Bridgemates we enter the result (-1/=/+1 etc).

The swedes changed their way of writing this after starting using Bridgemates to 4♠+1 when making five.

[TimG]

skaeran, on May 12 2008, 01:13 PM, said:

The swedes changed their way of writing this after starting using Bridgemates to 4♠+1 when making five.

Someone changed their ways? "swedes" must not live in the US...

Last time I saw a traveler, it had a column for "made" and a column for "down". If the contract was 4S and 11 tricks were taken, that would be a "5" in the made column; if 9 tricks were taken, that would be a "1" in the down column.

If I'm telling someone about a hand on which I took 11 tricks in 4S, I would say "made five", not "made eleven" or "plus one"; similarly, if I took 9 tricks, I would say "down one", not "made 9". Of course, there are variations, but I think "made five" is the most common way of expressing 4S+1 verbally, at least around these parts. And, it should come as no surprise that people tend to write things consistent with the way they say things.

[rogerclee]

I play pretty much exclusively in California tournaments and have never heard of this point. In fact, I think "4♠+1" is silly, and have always written "4♠+5" .

This has never come up in the nationals I have been to though.

[pclayton]

rogerclee, on May 12 2008, 12:52 PM, said:

I play pretty much exclusively in California tournaments and have never heard of this point. In fact, I think "4♠+1" is silly, and have always written "4♠+5" .

This has never come up in the nationals I have been to though.

It won't since you'll always use tickets for the pair events.

[DrTodd13]

In Oregon and Kentucky I've only ever seen +1, not +5. The inconsistency between +5 and -1 would drive me crazy.

[blackshoe]

Heh. Around here, I've seen just about anything and everything written - or, often, omitted - on travellers. We're trying to get rid of the damn things anyway - we've found we often run over time playing 24 boards when there are travellers, yet we can usually get in 27 boards without travellers. Plus as a director I don't have to put up with half a dozen calls complaining that "the traveller is wrong!" (we always use pickups, even when we also use travellers).

On my private score, I write +n for overtricks, and -n for undertricks. But then I learned to do that in England - many players here do the "+5" thing.

[jdonn]

blackshoe, on May 12 2008, 05:27 PM, said:

we've found we often run over time playing 24 boards when there are travellers, yet we can usually get in 27 boards without travellers
.....
(we always use pickups, even when we also use travellers).

Hmmmmmmmmm

[brianshark]

4♠+1 in Ireland. I've never seen or heard ot 4♠+5 until I read this thread. Occasionally I'd see a number of tricks column, usually supplementary to the contract column where people tend to write +=- anyway, and it's always 11.

[Cascade]

The standard in Australia which I like (note I am in NZ not Australia) is:

4S 9 for 4S down one

4S 11 for 4S up one

etc

This is consistent with the language in the laws which says you must agree the number of tricks won.

"The number of tricks won shall be agreed upon before all four hands have been returned to the board." Law 79A

[matmat]

i could swear the travellers at my club have a column for "tricks won" and one for "down"

i'll have to look... but if it is as i remember it, it is ridiculous.

[pclayton]

matmat, on May 12 2008, 03:58 PM, said:

i could swear the travellers at my club have a column for "tricks won" and one for "down"

i'll have to look... but if it is as i remember it, it is ridiculous.

They don't, only pick-up slips do.

[TimG]

pclayton, on May 12 2008, 07:00 PM, said:

matmat, on May 12 2008, 03:58 PM, said:

i could swear the travellers at my club have a column for "tricks won" and one for "down"

i'll have to look... but if it is as i remember it, it is ridiculous.

They don't, only pick-up slips do.

I'm sure there are more than one kind of traveler and that some of them have columns for "made" and "down".