[crazy4hoop]

Hi all,
I manage a bridge club in White Plains, NY and am becoming increasingly frustrated with how inaccurate players are when filling out not just the travellers but the pickup slips as well. It is almost equally frustrating trying to score the game when I get six director calls at once during either the last round or the penultimate round (or both). I have heard of both bridgemate and bridgepad and was wondering if anybody out there knows which is better. I'm not sure what the criteria are for one of these products being "better" than the other but I imagine two important issues are cost and how easy or hard they are for the players to use. I feel that my directing staff and I could learn real quick. We have anywhere from 4-10 tables for an evening game, 11-23 or so for a morning game, and 18-36 or so for an afternoon game. If anyone has any useful information, it would be most welcome. Thank you.

[CSGibson]

They used bridgepad scoring for the 2nd day of the Young Life-master pairs in Vegas. It was chaos in the beginning because the instructions were so poor and because noone had ever used them before, but it worked smoothly in the end, and was fairly easy to handle.

Of course, I'm not 30 yet, so my perspective on the ease of use for electronics is probably different than your main demographic in the club.

edited because I choose the wrong product. Bridgepad was indeed used.

[NickRW]

From what I can see they are broadly similar. Same sort of functionality, same sort of prices (but you have to check as there are country by country distributors).

Bridgemates are in use in quite a lot of places in Europe and have been around longer. Bridgepads seem to be the new boys on the block by comparison - but some say their product is sexier.

Oldies get used to them quick enough.

Nick

[jmc]

I believe that was the bridge pad in the Young LM pairs. The bridge pad is silver and about the size of an hp scientific calculator. It can be seen here:

http://www.bridgepadrf.com/

The bridgemate is white and bigger. It can be seen here:

https://www4.mailordercentral.com/baronbarc...ts.asp?dept=110


Bridgepad is an american based company and I believe the bridgemates started in England.

jmc

[crazy4hoop]

Thank you all for the input and the info.

[SoTired]

As an experienced CS, both interested me. We used BridgePad in the Nationals in LV. Then I had lengthy conversations with the BridgeMate people in LV. BridgePad has at least one important extra feature: EW security code. EW establishes a 2 digit security code in round one and then uses that same code to "OK" all of the rounds. BridgePad also allowed EW to OK each board as it ended or all boards of the round at the end of the round. BridgeMate required EW approval of each board at the end of the board and could not go back to correct a previous board in the
same round. BridgeMate could not make corrections at the terminal, only at ACBLScore. BridgePad allowed a director to enter a special "Director Security Code" and could make corrections at the terminal. The BridgeMate salesman said some of these things were going to be added in the next release. BridgePad is smaller and looks more modern.

The most important user thing is: Keystrokes. How many keystrokes does it take to enter scores? My partner was sitting North, but it seemed that he was hitting more keys than necessary to enter a score.... I don't really know for sure since I could not compare the two directly. I got the impression from the Salesman that BridgeMate had less keystrokes than BridgePad, but could not verify these directly.

I would suggest that you TEST both out before buying either. Make sure that they integrate seamlessly with ACBLScore. Remember that many bridge players are not computer savvy, so a learning curve of more than one round is too long. The screen keystokes for North should be self-evident with little instruction. Only the most tech-phobia North should need extensive help. AND COUNT THE KEYSTOKES to enter a score. Too many extra keystrokes is annoying, time-consuming and repititous. Especially a "Are you sure?" keystoke. That can get old real fast.

[JoAnneM]

My local club has used BridgePad at two recent games. One was a Mitchell movement and one was a Howell movement. We are a club of older players (of course) and with almost no instruction the first round was score flawlessly. Everyone took to it, with the other players at the table helping if necessary. By the second round everyone was an expert.

I have no problem with the number of keystrokes. With each entry you must click "next", which allows you to backup if you have made a typo. Also, the first time we used them we did not have the e/w approval feature turned on and when I audited the scores (we used travelers as backup) there were a few incorrect entries, so that feature is vital.

In a Howell movement it is important that the departing N/S pair clear their score by clicking "next" so the next pair sitting there won't see it.

On the whole the impression was very favorable. Because we were using both methods of scoring it was a little slow. This was not a test for purchasing the machines, we are a very poor club, but I co-direct with one of the Tournament Directors out here in California who is beta-testing the machines at tournaments and they are going to use them at the Santa Clara Regional and he was "in-training".

Since we are playing directors it is certainly nice to play the last round and then walk up to the computer and just click F8 to get the winners.

[FrancesHinden]

SoTired, on Aug 21 2008, 03:14 PM, said:

BridgeMate could not make corrections at the terminal, only at ACBLScore. BridgePad allowed a director to enter a special "Director Security Code" and could make corrections at the terminal. The BridgeMate salesman said some of these things were going to be added in the next release.

Everytime I've seen BridgeMate used in England, the TD has had a special 'key' (a little thing that he plugs into the BridgeMate) to allow corrections at the terminal.

Quote

I believe the bridgemates started in England

BridgeMates started somewhere in Scandanavia (possibly Sweden? I'm sure Roland would know)

[NickRW]

[quote name='FrancesHinden' date='Aug 21 2008, 04:37 PM'] [quote name='SoTired' date='Aug 21 2008, 03:14 PM'] BridgeMate could Everytime I've seen BridgeMate used in England, the TD has had a special 'key' (a little thing that he plugs into the BridgeMate) to allow corrections at the terminal. [/quote]
Yeah, that's right - the TD has a physical key to do that sort of thing.

[JoAnneM]

As an aside, the BridgePad machines can be rented, so I suppose the Bridgemate ones probably can be too. That might be a good way to select the right ones for your club.

[crazy4hoop]

Thank you all again for your input and suggestions. If there is more to add, I'm all ears (or eyes I guess, since I'm reading the responses).

[Trinidad]

FrancesHinden, on Aug 21 2008, 11:37 AM, said:

Quote

I believe the bridgemates started in England

BridgeMates started somewhere in Scandanavia (possibly Sweden? I'm sure Roland would know)

AFAIK Bridgemate started in The Netherlands where they still have their head office. (But for some, The Netherlands belong to Scandinavia. )

Rik

[helene_t]

BridgeMates are indeed a Dutch product. They don't look very sexy. The operation is not 100% self evident but it is simple enough that everyone learn to operate them quickly, regardless of age. The number of keystrokes is quite low. "Board 1, 3NT= by N, confirmed by EW, no score overview" is nine keystrokes I think.

Few weeks ago the TD was not there so someone who had never seen a bridgemate before voluteered to do the bridgemate configuration (telling the computer which movement we play etc), he was able to do it without pressing F1 even once so they cannot be that difficult to run,

It integrates fine with the software we use here in UK and also with different software when I was in NL.

[JoAnneM]

Very interesting, Helene. I am pretty sure BridgePad has a learning curve for Directors, hence the training sessions at our club.

[NickRW]

JoAnneM, on Aug 22 2008, 04:42 PM, said:

Very interesting, Helene. I am pretty sure BridgePad has a learning curve for Directors, hence the training sessions at our club.

Brigemate also (in the UK at least) offer TD training. The basic package is X pounds (for 6 tables) - or you can pay a little more and have them come to your club for a training session prior to club night - they go off and have a meal and pop back in later to make sure you're still all OK. More terminals cost a little more obviously.

Or you can opt to train yourself from the manual and save a little. I guess the training is value for money if none of the people who direct at your club are computer savvy.

Nick

[nige1]

Bridgemates and Bridgepads are OK as far as they go, but they could be more versatile. You could use them to enter the bidding and the opening lead.

• This would be a small software change.
  
• It would need no additional hardware -- well, OK, a communal screen, flat on the table, would be useful.
  
• It would allow tournaments to be run without bidding boxes or written bidding.
  
• It could prevent illegal calls, calls out of turn, and insufficient bids.
  
• It would allow individual records with the auction and opening lead.
  
• It would time events -- important when adjudicating on tempo-breaks -- and slow play.

If Bridgepad/mate manufacturers are reluctant to take this on, then somebody could easily write such a program for an ordinary laptop, PDA or mobile device.

You could do without cards altogether (as in on-line bridge) but that would require each player to have their own display and might be judged "a Bridge Too Far".

[skjaeran]

nige1, on Aug 22 2008, 08:11 PM, said:

Bridgemates and Bridgepads are OK as far as they go, but they could be more versatile. You could use them to enter the bidding and the opening lead.

• This would be a small software change.
  
• It would need no additional hardware -- well, OK, a communal screen, flat on the table, would be useful.
  
• It would allow tournaments to be run without bidding boxes or written bidding.
  
• It could prevent illegal calls, calls out of turn, and insufficient bids.
  
• It would allow individual records with the auction and opening lead.
  
• It would time events -- important when adjudicating on tempo-breaks -- and slow play.

If Bridgepad/mate manufacturers are reluctant to take this on, then somebody could easily write such a program for an ordinary laptop, PDA or mobile device.

You could do without cards altogether (as in on-line bridge) but that would require each player to have their own display and might be judged "a Bridge Too Far".

In the 2007 World Teams Championships in Shanghai and the 2008 European Teams Championships in Pau Bridgemates was used instead of written recording. The bidding and play (all tricks if played out) was entered on the Bridgemate.

In Pau I did this in about 2/3 of all the Norwegian matches, I did the morning and night matches and the captain the afternoon matches. Only as a home team playing on vugraph (the local one, not on the internet) you didn't have to record.

[skjaeran]

JoAnneM, on Aug 22 2008, 06:42 PM, said:

Very interesting, Helene. I am pretty sure BridgePad has a learning curve for Directors, hence the training sessions at our club.

Bridgemates are very easy to use as a TD. You insert the TD key into the Bridgemate, enter the appropriate code (cancel a board, look up what scores are typed in, look for missing board, enter an adjusted score, etc).

There's one 'problem' with the Bridgemates; as soon as the last board in a round has been entered and the score accepted by east, it's too late to make any corrections on the Bridgemate. You have to do it in the scoring program.

[jtfanclub]

nige1, on Aug 22 2008, 01:11 PM, said:

[*]It would need no additional hardware -- well, OK, a communal screen, flat on the table, would be useful.

I'd be happy without that! Just to be able to use it with screens, pass the Bridge MatePad* around instead of the bids...

Tough to believe that they couldn't do it, considering that I can get PCs cheaper than the Bridgemate.


*Copyright 1967, International Man of Mystery Inc.

[JoAnneM]

I like online bridge but I still like holding those 13 cards.