[pclayton]

Jlall, on Aug 16 2008, 09:40 AM, said:

This thread is amazing lol. Never thought I would have had to clarify this but all of my posts were jokes of course, this is so funny.

Duh lol.

However I wonder how many of your 'supporters' were onto the joke.

[jtfanclub]

jonottawa, on Aug 15 2008, 11:19 PM, said:

Made no difference? Maybe, maybe not. 3N was thin, but cold, on the lie of the cards.

I mean that everybody ended up with the same result this time.

[kenrexford]

han, on Aug 16 2008, 11:08 AM, said:

kenrexford, on Aug 16 2008, 09:22 AM, said:

han, on Aug 15 2008, 11:36 PM, said:

Agree with Ron, you can certainly have a cold game and 3C will make you miss it too often. Partner isn't even a "passed hand", he could have a decent hand, especially given how some opponents open and respond these days. Whatever the colors are, 3C is still a preemptive bid.

Well, unless you have agreed that it does not show a weak hand, but then you have to alert it. The same is true if you frequently bid it with hands like this even if you haven't formally agreed to do that. (I do think that that is taking a good idea wayyy too far)

How on earth could it be required to alert a natural red-vs-white jump overcall to the three-level because it shows a hand worthy of a red-v-white jump to the three-level after the opponents have placed an expectation of at least half the deck combined on the table? I don't get it.

I would have guessed that intermediate jump overcalls red-v-white were standard enough to at least require the opponents to ask rather than to require us to alert.

I don't know what you mean by "the opponents have placed an expectation of at least half the deck". Before anybody looks at their cards the opponents have an epectation of half the deck, but that doesn't mean you give up on game, does it. What kind of argument is that? When the opponents open and respond they haven't shown nowhere near enough values for us to give up on game, especially when we have a solid 6-card suit.

And what are you arguing for anyway? Are you arguing that intermediate overcalls are a good agreement at these colors (I agree) and that they are not alertable (I disagree)? Or are you arguing that it is good tactics to bid 3C with this hand while playing that 3C shows a weak jump overcall (I strongly disagree)?

First, as to points on the table. Sure, when the hands are dealt, everyone had 3.33 cards in each suit and 10 HCP. However, the range is 0-37 HCP for each and 0-13 cards for each suit. After three bids, the shape is known a bit more, and the low range drops. Now, instead of 0-40 combined points for the opponents, and an expectation of 20 on average, the opponents are known to have a combined about 18 to 25 HCP. If game our way possible in the face of this? Yes, of course.

Should an intermediate J.S. be alertable when RvW? No, because a substantial (minority) plays that, such that it should not be remotely unexpected. If the idea is to alert any call that is not played by 51% of all players, we are alerting too much.

Should I bid 3♣ here because I think we should be playing intermediate jump shifts but we are not so I will do it anyway? No. Well, unless you are intending to operate, for some reason.

[cherdano]

In the ACBL, intermediate jump overcalls are alertable.

[kenrexford]

cherdano, on Aug 17 2008, 01:40 PM, said:

In the ACBL, intermediate jump overcalls are alertable.

This is true, even if stupid.

As an example of how stupid ACBL rules are, a literal reading of the alert chart means that fourth-seat jump overcalls are alertable (e.g., 1♣-P-P-2♠) is intermediate or better, as are jump overcalls of weak openings (e.g., 2♦-3♥).