[vang]

Scoring: IMP

(1♥) - 1♠ - (3♥) - p
all pass

---

your oppinions on this?
- E shall gave fit (bid 3♠ over 3♥)
- W shall have used michaels to show a 2suiter
- first round of bidding it's fine but then W should balance (with double?)
- all is ok, though luck

I don't remember vuln (i think it was all red or all white anyway), please mention if that will change your bids.

[dicklont]

East should have bid 3♠.
3♥ is obviously weak, they wil confirm this when you ask them.

[vang]

of course 3♥ is (relatively) weak. problem here is that 3♠ may lead to one down when 3♥ was also down or to 4♠ by partner, one or two down (doubled?) when they are also down in 4♥ etc. is a 10 losers (or 2 cover cards) enough to bid 3♠?

[655321]

Depending on your agreements, I like Michaels instead of 1♠, but 1♠ is OK too.

I don't like either pass. 3♠ by East seems clear enough, as does a reopening double by West.

[inquiry]

I like a competitive 3♠ by east here.

BTW, I have grown fond of what Marshall Miles called a cue-bid double of 3♥ to show good raise to 3♠ as opposed to the direct raise. You lose responsive double playing this way, but seems more useful, would you often really want to suggest a 4 of a minor contract without a spade fit?

[mcphee]

This hand IMO is not good enough to bid 2H when playing weak or strong michaels. with my preference to the 1S o/c and I would raise to 3S with partners Axxx pail of dung. RHO has pre-empted and it might be difficult for partner to bid again even though they are short in H.

[jtfanclub]

I disagree with everybody, as usual....

I really don't like 3♠ by East. It makes it much more likely that they'll bid 4♥, and then what are you going to do? I rather dislike it when partner pushes the opps into a making game. Yes, I know 3♥ is weak, but opener is unlimited. If East passes, it's likely South will have to guess. I'm not going to confirm a fit just to make that guess easy, and with 3 cards in each of the minors, even low-% games are often going to make thanks to the nice split.

If E-W really want to be in game, then West should double (or just bid Michaels in the first place). But if you've ever seen one of my 1♠ overcalls, you'd understand why helping them find 4♥ is a huge mistake when I'm playing West.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

#1 I think it is close, if one should bid 3S or pass,
be sure to know your style.
#2 I think it is a matter of partnership agreement,
if you bid Micahels or not, as it is, this will only
help you, if the 2-suiter overcall shows spades
+clubs, else you will have the same problem as
before, with the added disadvantage, that the cue
may be weaker.
#3 I would not reopen, ... at least not if I was red.
#4 yes, tough luck.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

inquiry, on Aug 13 2008, 08:42 AM, said:

I like a competitive 3♠ by east here.

BTW, I have grown fond of what Marshall Miles called a cue-bid double of 3♥ to show good raise to 3♠ as opposed to the direct raise. You lose responsive double playing this way, but seems more useful, would you often really want to suggest a 4 of a minor contract without a spade fit?

I think this idea would be helpfull, if you have
a way to differentiate the raises, I am happy to
bid 3S.

I guess, the meaning of the double is only on, if
there is no space, else one may or may not be able
to use transfer advances?

Say (1D) - 1S - (3D) - ???

3H - either a strong hand with hearts or (?!) an spade
raise, 3S competitive.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[brianshark]

Maybe this is a hand which shows you just have to bid 3♠ with 4 card support, but I certainly don't like it. It's west who has the nice hand. Pre-empts work? Maybe Michaels is a better option for West. And balancing is certainly not unreasonable either. If they have a 9 card fit, we must have some sort of fit somewhere.

[jdonn]

East should bid 3♠, and when he doesnt I would double as west.

[mikeh]

jdonn, on Aug 13 2008, 10:53 AM, said:

East should bid 3♠, and when he doesnt I would double as west.

Agreed

BTW, what should 3N be by east over double? I would assume takeout for the minors, but I don' t think I've ever seen the auction... tough to picture a hand that wants to play 3N

[SoTired]

although i would bid 3S, i have sympathy for east's pass. after all it is a 4333, 6hcp hand. ♣Q fits West perfectly. i think if east's hand was displayed without west's, there might be more votes for pass.

West should dbl 3H and hope partner does not bid 4D.

I play weak-strong michaels also. 15hcp is the bottom of my strong range. don't see how west does not qualify.

[han]

Agree that both passes are wrong and that west was more wrong. Also like the idea of the double as invitational spade raise, does it apply in more auctions than this?

[inquiry]

han, on Aug 13 2008, 12:35 PM, said:

Agree that both passes are wrong and that west was more wrong. Also like the idea of the double as invitational spade raise, does it apply in more auctions than this?

I like it on the following auctions....

(1♥) - 2m - (2♥) - DBL
(1♠) - 2m - (2♠) - Dbl
(1♦) - 1♥ - (3♦) - DBL

And similar auctions... if there is a lot of room between your suit and their suit...., say...

(1♣) - 1♠ - (3♣) - ?

Now a responsive double allows you two shots at the same level to find a second suit fit, not to mention, you can still play in spades. Here, I prefer the responsive double. Make that...

(1♣) - 1♦ - (3♣) - ? The space arguement goes away, but at least the double keeps the majors in play at this level. If your partner will not play Raptor (ok, I am losing interest in raptor myself) and refuses to overcall with a four card major even when holding longer diamonds, you have to keep this one as "responsive" I guess. I would play it as "cue-bid" double myself (I was going to cue-bid 3♣ but they beat me to it....

Mike Lawrence wrote some about these doubles in his book (Double or doubles, I don't remember the title), and of course Marshall Miles advocates them.

negative, responsive, action, DSIP, snapdragon, penalty, lead directing, anti-lead directing, cue=bid (even when there has been no cue-bid!), arghhh.... we may never get a double right again......

[SoTired]

inquiry, on Aug 13 2008, 01:14 PM, said:

negative, responsive, action, DSIP, snapdragon, penalty, lead directing, anti-lead directing, cue=bid (even when there has been no cue-bid!), arghhh.... we may never get a double right again......

You forgot Maximal dbls, which might apply to this auction
(1H) 1S (3H) X = maximal dbl with a LR hand. Used only when overcall is major and opps suit is M-1.