[jillybean]

>(3♠) negative
(4♥) 4N 5/5 minors
(4♥) 4♠ - you are obviously going to have something in the minors too, is pard
expected to bid a minor with zero tolerance for ♠?
(4♠) 4N 2 suited pard must respond ♣ when ♦>♣>♥
(4♥) X penalty
(4♠) X penalty

What have I missed?

[jdonn]

jillybean2, on Aug 4 2008, 05:47 PM, said:

(4♥) 4♠  - you are obviously going to have something in the minors too, is pard
expected to bid a minor with zero tolerance for ♠?

No, why are you going to have something in the minors? You might, but if you have just spades you will bid spades

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(4♠) 4N  2 suited  pard must respond ♣ when ♦>♣>♥

Very good.

Quote

(4♥) X penalty

No! Yipe, it's takeout. You can certainly be offshape since there isn't any room to work with, but it's absolutely not showing a heart stack, it invites partner to go to spades if he likes them for example.

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(4♠) X penalty

More controversial perhaps, but still takeout for me. The old fashioned way was to use 4NT as a takeout, but there were two gigantic problems. One was that partner often wants to pass your takeout double at this level (he doesn't want to bid a suit so high without something like a weak two bid). The other was that you couldn't show two-suited hands.

Frankly, you get more penalties by playing double as takeout anyway since it's much more common to be short in a suit they open at this level. Partner usually passes your double when it's so high.

[jillybean]

jdonn, on Aug 4 2008, 04:09 PM, said:

jillybean2, on Aug 4 2008, 05:47 PM, said:

(4♥) X penalty

No! Yipe, it's takeout. You can certainly be offshape since there isn't any room to work with, but it's absolutely not showing a heart stack, it invites partner to go to spades if he likes them for example.

Apparently not by everyone, people do play ‘any double over 3♠ is for penalty’ perhaps not distinguishing between competitive and non competitive auctions?

[han]

Agree with Donn, don't know anybody who plays 4H-Dbl as penalty.

[jillybean]

This is a thread I wish would go away, I was having a blonde moment