[jillybean]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 1♦    Pass  Pass  Dbl
 Pass  1NT   Pass  Pass
 Pass  

[jtfanclub]

Seems reasonable enough to me. Switch the majors for South and it's almost certainly where you'd want to play it.

Edit: Note that this is a mistake I see a lot...sure, you'd rather play in 2 clubs. But it's very possible that if North names a suit instead that the opponents will end up playing in 2♠ making. So that's really where the comparison should be made.

[rogerclee]

North is a much more creative player than me, because I would just bid 2♣.

Seriously there should be no desire to play 1NT here with nothing in diamonds opposite shortness.

Edit: Sorry, my comments in this thread are dumb because I misread the problem and thought south was a PH. I agree that 1NT has considerably more merit in this situation, but I would still bid 2♣.

[FrancesHinden]

I also don't understand North's 1NT bid with nothing resembling a stop

[jdonn]

Agree 2♣. If north was 3343 with this hand then it might be different since the other options besides 1NT would also be so bad.

[han]

Agree with 2♣, the clubs are nice and there is no stopper.

[mikeh]

Agree that 1N was an error. It looks like a call made by a player whose bridge is mostly at matchpoints: I think it is an error even there, but it is far more understandable at mps than at imps.

[jtfanclub]

mikeh, on Aug 1 2008, 02:00 PM, said:

Agree that 1N was an error. It looks like a call made by a player whose bridge is mostly at matchpoints: I think it is an error even there, but it is far more understandable at mps than at imps.

That's a good point.

I'm still not convinced that 1NT is an error. South is doubling in balancing seat, so he could have 4-4-3-2 or the like....what's his other choice, pick a major at random? Pass it out? I think it's a bit much to hope that partner has 4 clubs for a balancing seat X.

I'm not saying 2♣ is an error either, mind you.

[P_Marlowe]

Why blame?

1NT is a reasonable bid, and so is
the reopening t/o.

1 NT has the advantage, that it tells
partner you hold values, 2C is just
noise.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[rogerclee]

P_Marlowe, on Aug 1 2008, 02:04 PM, said:

1 NT has the advantage, that it tells
partner you hold values.

Ok there are two things wrong with this:

1) Partner does NOT need to know we have values. In this case he already knows we have values, and in fact, I would say my hand is very average for this position. This argument is used all the time even in other (more appropriate but still wrong) scenarios, like "oh man, I could've bid this way with a yarb, so since I have two kings, I have to do something." PARTNER NEVER PLAYS YOU FOR A YARB.

2) 1NT also lies about some values in DIAMONDS?!?!

[Echognome]

2♣ seems pretty straightforward at IMPs. I would definitely consider 1NT at MPs.

[P_Marlowe]

rogerclee, on Aug 1 2008, 04:13 PM, said:

<snip>

2) 1NT also lies about some values in DIAMONDS?!?!

Sure, but also tells something about the shape,
and 9xxx is ok as stopper, I would prefer 10xxx,
but 9xxx will do as well.

Of course 2C works pretty well on the given hand,
because our partner happens to hold 4 clubs, as it
is, clubs is the first suit he would lie, if he had too.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[rogerclee]

P_Marlowe, on Aug 1 2008, 02:16 PM, said:

rogerclee, on Aug 1 2008, 04:13 PM, said:

<snip>

2) 1NT also lies about some values in DIAMONDS?!?!

Sure, but also tells something about the shape,
and 9xxx is ok as stopper, I would prefer 10xxx,
but 9xxx will do as well.

Of course 2C works pretty well on the given hand,
because our partner happens to hold 4 clubs, as it
is, clubs is the first suit he would lie, if he had too.

With kind regards
Marlowe

Partner could also have a singleton diamond too. I don't understand this argument, yes he could be 4432 even. Again you are thinking of the worst possible scenario and not the most common scenarios.

[P_Marlowe]

rogerclee, on Aug 1 2008, 04:18 PM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Aug 1 2008, 02:16 PM, said:

rogerclee, on Aug 1 2008, 04:13 PM, said:

<snip>

2) 1NT also lies about some values in DIAMONDS?!?!

Sure, but also tells something about the shape,
and 9xxx is ok as stopper, I would prefer 10xxx,
but 9xxx will do as well.

Of course 2C works pretty well on the given hand,
because our partner happens to hold 4 clubs, as it
is, clubs is the first suit he would lie, if he had too.

With kind regards
Marlowe

Partner could also have a singleton diamond too. I don't understand this argument, yes he could be 4432 even. Again you are thinking of the worst possible scenario and not the most common scenarios.

Partner holding a bal. hand should be pretty
common.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[fred]

P_Marlowe, on Aug 1 2008, 09:04 PM, said:

Why blame?

1NT is a reasonable bid, and so is
the reopening t/o.

1 NT has the advantage, that it tells
partner you hold values, 2C is just
noise.

With kind regards
Marlowe

I agree with this.

It is unlucky that these hands mesh so poorly for notrump and mesh so well for clubs. Also, it is not unusual for Easts of all levels of experience to lead something other than a diamond versus notrump when the bidding starts this way. In the not unlikely event that East leads a diamond and the defense can run that suit, your Aces will provide some measure of control over the rest of the play.

Sure the DBLer could have a singleton diamond, but he could also have a doubleton club or, as Marlowe correctly points out, a hand that will move toward game over 1NT but not over 2C.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[dburn]

Wouldn't blame anyone. If the North hand were given to the Master Solvers' Club, I'd imagine you would find a 50-50 split between 1NT and 2♣. Some might even bid 1♥, and I would not call them fools.

[Echognome]

dburn, on Aug 1 2008, 01:51 PM, said:

Some might even bid 1♥, and I would not call them fools.

Trying to imagine all the things you would call them.

[jdonn]

I don't think I would call them at all.

[NickRW]

Well, I'd prefer 1N, even with IMP scoring myself. A reopening double in particular often has two diamonds rather than one. Also, assuming the 1♦ opener is a better minor type, then there is the possibility that opener doesn't even have 4 of them himself. Plus there are times when the ♦9 will be a useful card. Plus there are sometimes games we will find by making the value showing bid. Plus there are times, as on this hand possibly, where opps will find their spade fit over 2♣ that they are less likely to find over 1N.

Sure there will be times when it turns out to have been the wrong choice - but one hand proves nothing.

Anyway, I love playing 1N. So many folks groan and say, "another boring part score". But I find 1N so rich in possibilities most times - excellent source of tactical battles.

Nick