[the hog]

655321, on Jul 21 2008, 11:33 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Jul 20 2008, 11:11 PM, said:

gwnn, on Jul 21 2008, 02:44 AM, said:

I thought pass was obvious and had lots of sympathy to my opp. They got 200 but they had 920 available when doubler had 5-5 in the reds. Obviously to describe double as bad would be an understatement. I was arguing with my teammates, they thought penalty passing was very stupid and I was insane for agreeing with the Polish lad.

Well, as I said, I agree totally with your teammates. Would you really have been totally SHOCKED to write down -160? This is particulalrly true playing the methods you describe.

I think I am a little "more experienced" than at least one amusing poster who made a trite and supercilious comment. However I guess that particular poster is not "experienced enough" to understand NFBs? Pass really is not a good call.
(DHL, Double!, clearly does not understand the methods used either.)

This link talks about level of experience, and may be helpful.

It is not important how well you think you play, since most bridge players are unable to assess their own skills with any accuracy. What matters is your level of experience and the degree of success that you have had in live, competitive clubs and tournaments.

And anyonymous numeric one, your point is....?

[Double !]

HOG:

I think that what I wrote clearly suggests to a sensible person that I might have misread the bidding. I clearly missed the fact that the partnership was play nfb (which we used to play back in the 70s). I acknowledge and apologize for posting when I had totally misunderstood the bidding (as is evident by the reference to partner having redoubled). Bad eyes. So, I made a mistake, something no one else on this forum has ever done. LIVE WITH IT!

If you were referring to me or anything I wrote as being "trite" or "supercilious": Thank you for the compliment. I appreciate it. My wife would definitely agree with the supercilious part.

DHL

[the hog]

Double !, on Jul 22 2008, 12:16 AM, said:

HOG:

I think that what I wrote clearly suggests to a sensible person that I might have misread the bidding.  I clearly missed the fact that the partnership was play nfb (which we used to play back in the 70s).  I acknowledge and apologize for posting when I had totally misunderstood the bidding (as is evident by the reference to partner having redoubled).  Bad eyes.  So, I made a mistake, something no one else on this forum has ever done.  LIVE WITH IT!

If you were referring to me or anything I wrote as being "trite" or "supercilious":  Thank you for the compliment.  I appreciate it.  My wife would definitely agree with the supercilious part.   

DHL

No, that comment did not refer to you at all. Sorry if you thought it did, but I did say "either", when referring to your post.

[gwnn]

ron are you saying that double is right on

x
QTxxx
AKxxx
Jx

?

[effervesce]

gwnn, on Jul 22 2008, 03:29 AM, said:

ron are you saying that double is right on

x
QTxxx
AKxxx
Jx

?

Playing negative free bids, what else can you bid but X? Unless you have fit-showing jumps on your card...

[the hog]

gwnn, on Jul 22 2008, 03:29 PM, said:

ron are you saying that double is right on

x
QTxxx
AKxxx
Jx

?

As Effervesce says, what else can you do? If you bid 2H it could go all pass and you lose your fine D fit. If you raise Ds you may have lost a possible H fit. There is really no other choice apart from x

[helene_t]

I play NFB myself and would bid 2♥ with this hand. Opps will bid spades and then I can show my diamonds next round.

[effervesce]

helene_t, on Jul 22 2008, 07:59 AM, said:

I play NFB myself and would bid 2♥ with this hand. Opps will bid spades and then I can show my diamonds next round.

On this particular hand, I doubt the opps have the strength to bid over a 2♥ bid, or heart shortage to balance over it. The most likely result is playing in a 5-1 heart fit.

[the hog]

Agree. It is foolish to rely on the opponents so you get to show your hand. If you are plying anyone half way decent you will be playing in your 5-1 H fit, with 5 or in this case 6D cold.

[rogerclee]

The_Hog, on Jul 20 2008, 10:37 PM, said:

655321, on Jul 21 2008, 11:33 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Jul 20 2008, 11:11 PM, said:

gwnn, on Jul 21 2008, 02:44 AM, said:

I thought pass was obvious and had lots of sympathy to my opp. They got 200 but they had 920 available when doubler had 5-5 in the reds. Obviously to describe double as bad would be an understatement. I was arguing with my teammates, they thought penalty passing was very stupid and I was insane for agreeing with the Polish lad.

Well, as I said, I agree totally with your teammates. Would you really have been totally SHOCKED to write down -160? This is particulalrly true playing the methods you describe.

I think I am a little "more experienced" than at least one amusing poster who made a trite and supercilious comment. However I guess that particular poster is not "experienced enough" to understand NFBs? Pass really is not a good call.
(DHL, Double!, clearly does not understand the methods used either.)

This link talks about level of experience, and may be helpful.

It is not important how well you think you play, since most bridge players are unable to assess their own skills with any accuracy. What matters is your level of experience and the degree of success that you have had in live, competitive clubs and tournaments.

And anyonymous numeric one, your point is....?

His point is that you suck.

[the hog]

rogerclee, on Jul 23 2008, 10:34 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Jul 20 2008, 10:37 PM, said:

655321, on Jul 21 2008, 11:33 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Jul 20 2008, 11:11 PM, said:

gwnn, on Jul 21 2008, 02:44 AM, said:

I thought pass was obvious and had lots of sympathy to my opp. They got 200 but they had 920 available when doubler had 5-5 in the reds. Obviously to describe double as bad would be an understatement. I was arguing with my teammates, they thought penalty passing was very stupid and I was insane for agreeing with the Polish lad.

Well, as I said, I agree totally with your teammates. Would you really have been totally SHOCKED to write down -160? This is particulalrly true playing the methods you describe.

I think I am a little "more experienced" than at least one amusing poster who made a trite and supercilious comment. However I guess that particular poster is not "experienced enough" to understand NFBs? Pass really is not a good call.
(DHL, Double!, clearly does not understand the methods used either.)

This link talks about level of experience, and may be helpful.

It is not important how well you think you play, since most bridge players are unable to assess their own skills with any accuracy. What matters is your level of experience and the degree of success that you have had in live, competitive clubs and tournaments.

And anyonymous numeric one, your point is....?

His point is that you suck.

The feeling is mutual. I don't suffer fools gladly.

[cherdano]

The_Hog, on Jul 22 2008, 06:48 AM, said:

gwnn, on Jul 22 2008, 03:29 PM, said:

ron are you saying that double is right on

x
QTxxx
AKxxx
Jx

?

As Effervesce says, what else can you do? If you bid 2H it could go all pass and you lose your fine D fit. If you raise Ds you may have lost a possible H fit. There is really no other choice apart from x

If that is how you play NFBs, then that method is asking for disasters. Give partner the option to pass 1♠x while you know you have a 9-card fit??

I would just force this hand to game with a 3♥ FJ.

[helene_t]

I wouldn't be worried about partner passing my sputnik double at the 1-level. It almost never happens.

I would be worried about making a strength-showing double with two distributional features (extra heart length and great diamond support) yet to be shown, especially with such a weak hand in terms of defense.

I admit that 2♥ may lead to a silly result but so could 2♠ or double. Obviously if a fit-jump is available I will use that. Maybe 3♥ should be two-way, either one-suited with hearts or hearts+diamonds, just like an SJS.

[effervesce]

cherdano, on Jul 23 2008, 02:31 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Jul 22 2008, 06:48 AM, said:

gwnn, on Jul 22 2008, 03:29 PM, said:

ron are you saying that double is right on

x
QTxxx
AKxxx
Jx

?

As Effervesce says, what else can you do? If you bid 2H it could go all pass and you lose your fine D fit. If you raise Ds you may have lost a possible H fit. There is really no other choice apart from x

If that is how you play NFBs, then that method is asking for disasters. Give partner the option to pass 1♠x while you know you have a 9-card fit??

I would just force this hand to game with a 3♥ FJ.

They obviously dont play fit-showing jumps, or this would not have occurred. Without a 3♥ FSJ, what is your bid? X or 2♥?

[Apollo81]

The vulnerability screams "pass"