[jdonn]

The_Hog, on Jul 6 2008, 09:15 PM, said:

So what was the result Csaba. How many off doubles did your overcall go?

I hope he did go down a lot doubled. I would hate to see you leave without being proven correct!

[Codo]

2 Heart is making easily and it is hard to beat 1 NT or make any other contract.
Pds hand is xxx,T9x,xxxx,KJx, so you should reach 2 HEart after you bid or a double anyway.

[brianshark]

I'm not thrilled with the idea of bidding with this hand tbh. I think I'm going to pass. Game seems quite unlikely.

[jdonn]

Codo, on Jul 7 2008, 01:39 AM, said:

2 Heart is making easily and it is hard to beat 1 NT or make any other contract.
Pds hand is xxx,T9x,xxxx,KJx, so you should reach 2 HEart after you bid or a double anyway.

How do you reach 2♥ if you double? Partner has a 100% 2♣ bid. I guess it's such a horrible contract that they might double you out of it, wd.

[kenrexford]

Weird.

As I started reading through the comments, I somehow became convinced that the hand must have had four spades and five hearts if people were doubling. Then, when jdonn mentioned bidding 2♣, I got confused because I thought about maybe an ELC sequence. I was fairly certain that I saw a doubleton diamond, and 4523 pattern is not likely. So, I had to loom back and see what the heck was going on here.

People are doubling here?

Weird.

[inquiry]

jdonn, on Jul 7 2008, 09:57 PM, said:

Codo, on Jul 7 2008, 01:39 AM, said:

2 Heart is making easily and it is hard to beat 1 NT or make any other contract.
Pds hand is  xxx,T9x,xxxx,KJx, so you should reach 2 HEart after you bid or a double anyway.

How do you reach 2♥ if you double? Partner has a 100% 2♣ bid. I guess it's such a horrible contract that they might double you out of it, wd.

2♣ was the contract, it should be down three... I was on defense with AJ doubleton hearts behind dummy. I won the diamond lead, cashed heart ace and exited heart Jack, partner got in twice and never gave me my heart ruff, so it was down only 2. I even gave a trump signal (hi low) but it was too tough for my partner to work it out (club AQ behind kj).

1NT is easy enough to defeat on big spade lead, then swich to top heart (AJ doubleton in dummy). 2♥, yes, can make.

I guess the takehome message of this "n" of 1 is that double might find your spade fit, but might also find your club not so fit.

[kenrexford]

Brilliant!

[cherdano]

Winstonm, on Jul 5 2008, 08:05 PM, said:

However, if you pretend you really do "have 'em" with a 2H bid, you get to practice playing 2H down-a-zillion instead of the sane 2S making when partner tables Jxxxx, xx, xxx, Axx

MY partner can't have this hand, he would have 1S'ed.
(Ok, this time I am exaggerating.)

[Codo]

jdonn, on Jul 8 2008, 11:57 AM, said:

Codo, on Jul 7 2008, 01:39 AM, said:

2 Heart is making easily and it is hard to beat 1 NT or make any other contract.
Pds hand is  xxx,T9x,xxxx,KJx, so you should reach 2 HEart after you bid or a double anyway.

How do you reach 2♥ if you double? Partner has a 100% 2♣ bid. I guess it's such a horrible contract that they might double you out of it, wd.

This was my thought at the table and I think it was plain wrong, not just for this hand but for general reasons:

1. The 1 NT bidder has at least 3 Clubs, but the chance that he has 4 or more is big.
2.PD will much more often double with 4423 then with 4324. I even saw some doubling with 3523.
3. The clubs will take their tricks in a heart or spade contract as good as in a major contract.
4. If you have a SOS redouble from both sides here, fine, but if you don't, you may have a hard time to find an undoubled spot. I think the chance that 2 Club is your best spot and/or you can play there undoubled is much smaller then to find your best spot with 2 Heart and a prayer.

At the table I really had liked to bid 2 Diamond to show equal majors, but I was afraid that that had shown another hand.

[jdonn]

Codo you are backwards, think of it this way. With the 3523 hand, most people are bidding hearts. With 3325 and the same hand almost all those same people would double. Also bidding clubs first gives you a chance to escape if they double you, which could have happened on this hand. If you bid 2♥ and it's a 3-3 fit, that's where you play, doubled or not.

[jtfanclub]

brianshark, on Jul 7 2008, 04:18 AM, said:

I'm not thrilled with the idea of bidding with this hand tbh. I think I'm going to pass. Game seems quite unlikely.

I don't understand this.

Both opponents have denied heart length. Opener could have 11. Responder could have, well, responder could have 0 and just be trying to steal the contract for all you know. I mean, this is possible for partner:

xxxx
Axxx
AKxx
x

Would you bid with that hand over a 1♦ bid?

I don't mean to say that you should be looking for slam. I just mean that when slam is possible, giving up on game seems like a bit much.

Your hand is one point away from being pure as the driven snow, and has some shape. I don't think you can give up on game at all.

[the hog]

jtfanclub, on Jul 9 2008, 10:26 AM, said:

brianshark, on Jul 7 2008, 04:18 AM, said:

I'm not thrilled with the idea of bidding with this hand tbh. I think I'm going to pass. Game seems quite unlikely.

I don't understand this.

Both opponents have denied heart length. Opener could have 11. Responder could have, well, responder could have 0 and just be trying to steal the contract for all you know. I mean, this is possible for partner:

xxxx
Axxx
AKxx
x

Would you bid with that hand over a 1♦ bid?

I don't mean to say that you should be looking for slam. I just mean that when slam is possible, giving up on game seems like a bit much.

Your hand is one point away from being pure as the driven snow, and has some shape. I don't think you can give up on game at all.

JT why has opener denied Hs? She opened 1D and can certainly have 4H. Your posted hand of:

xxxx
Axxx
AKxx
x

is such a way out example. Anyway, I would bid 1H over 1D with this as I think would many. Brian is correct when he says the hand is dangerous to bid on. The downsides ae many and the upsides few.