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uhh, "support" double?

Poll: your call please (44 member(s) have cast votes)

your call please

  1. pass (37 votes [84.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 84.09%

  2. penaltyish double (1 votes [2.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.27%

  3. 3s (2 votes [4.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.55%

  4. 4c (1 votes [2.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.27%

  5. obviously penaltyish is a stupid meaning for double, and that is the right call on this hand (3 votes [6.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.82%

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#1 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2008-July-02, 08:44

All white, BAM

Qx
xx
KJ
AQ9xxxx

2-(2)-2-(3)
?

2 = precision, shows 6+, denies a 4-card major
2 = F1, 5+ cards
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#2 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2008-July-02, 08:46

Pass seems obvious. You have a minimum opener with one extra club and marginal support for partner's suit. Hardly enough to take any forward going action.

I cannot imagine that a double here would be a support double.
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#3 User is offline   Walddk 

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Posted 2008-July-02, 09:09

I have a minimum opener with an extra club but the dreaded 7222, so I pass. By the way, does support double apply this high? Not for me. It doesn't matters much anyway since I am not going to double - whatever that means.

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#4 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2008-July-02, 09:17

To clarify the OP, a 3 bid here would normally show 3, so if double means something other than penaltyish, then Hx seems like a good spade holding to have for such a double.
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#5 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-July-02, 09:25

Pass seems clear. Whatever you decide, double would not be penalty.

According to Arend, I'm the only person in the world that would play it as co-operative, so apparently the avant-garde play it as takeout.

I think playing a double here as exactly 2 pieces is rather restrictive. Why assign a specific meaning, when we can assign something amorphous, and is a lock to win the post-mortem?
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#6 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2008-July-02, 09:41

Pass is clear, and Dbl would not be penalty. I would Dbl with 2137 and the same honor structure.
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#7 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2008-July-13, 19:23

Partner bid a spade suit over 2H, he wanted to get spades in!! Give him 3S.
Pass would hate spades: S-x/xx. Ax/Kx/Qx is great support here.
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#8 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2008-July-13, 22:42

I'm a passer, and don't think it's close; minimum, no shortness, so-so support.

I'm rebidding 3 over a balancing double by partner.
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#9 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-July-13, 22:46

Can't imagine the temptation to do anything. Easy pass.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#10 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2008-July-14, 16:10

skaeran, on Jul 13 2008, 11:42 PM, said:

I'm a passer, and don't think it's close; minimum, no shortness, so-so support.

I'm rebidding 3 over a balancing double by partner.

We agree completely...lets see if PD can balance.
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#11 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2008-July-16, 08:11

Does partner have a negative X available instead of bidding 2S ? If partner had 5 lousy spades would he bid 2S or made a neg X. I like to play that X followed by 3S show 5 lousy spades and a good hand (forcing). With a lousy hand and lousy 5 spades i would just make a neg x anyway. So for me 2S show good spades more often 6 then 5 so i can raise to 3S.

If 2S = any 5 spades is possible then i pass.
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#12 User is offline   RichMor 

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Posted 2008-July-16, 12:02

I would Pass; flat pattern + minimum + poor Spade support.

I don't think Double should be penalty but should be a 'support' double. A support double should show good 2-card support, with good 3-card support just raise.

Agree with gerben:
I would Dbl with 2137 and the same honor structure.
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#13 User is offline   Double ! 

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Posted 2008-July-19, 00:38

What is the difference between passing now and then bidding 3S when partner re-opens, and making a support X now, assuming that that is what a double would mean? (It's not clear that it should be a support dbl. It could be a hand that wants to play in 3NT if P has a heart stopper.) What the difference between partner bidding 2S immediately as opposed to making a neg X/ 2H and then bidding spades. Why do I ask all these questions that interests no one?

If it's a support double, I suggest that the second method shows a minimum that wouldn't accept a game try, and that the first sequence shows a hand that would accept some kind of game try. Why reverse the meanings? Because, just because 2S was F-1, that doesn't mean P must have a hand that would necessarily re-open. P might have had a decent 6 card spade suit and little else. If the system doesn't permit 2S/2H competitive with such a hand, then that seems to be a flaw. At least, by differentiating the strength of your hand, partner has some idea whether or not you'd accept a game try.

Does this make any sense? I doubt it, but it's just a suggestion and permitted me to (figuratively), open my big mouth and get in trouble as a result.

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#14 User is offline   Rossoneri 

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Posted 2008-July-21, 11:43

Pass: You have described your hand already.
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#15 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2008-July-21, 12:23

This was a long time ago, before vacation, so I don't remember the whole hand very well. You have to bid 3 to get a good score on the board.
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