Exit Angelini left Pau in disgust
#1
Posted 2008-June-26, 16:22
As most of you will have noticed, Angelini-Sementa were benched for 7 of the 8 first matches in RR2 (one can understand why after their poor performance in RR1).
A most reliable source tells me that his team members had criticised Angelini's poor play. Whether that was a good idea or not is not for me to say, but Angelini left the venue in disgust and returned to Italy.
Officially due to business commitments, unofficially .... well, you know now. As a result, the Italians have been playing 5-handed for two days. Sementa played two matches with Versace.
My source also reveals that Ms. Lavazza now regrets that she dumped Fantoni-Nunes in favour of Angelini-Sementa. He has read it on some Italian website. Unfortunately I don't have a link, so until proven this is only hearsay.
Roland
#2
Posted 2008-June-26, 18:21
They really only have themselves to blame.
Nick
#3
Posted 2008-June-26, 19:20
I dont know much (anything) about professional bridge teams. Why was Fantnues not selected in favor of thes etwo?
#4
Posted 2008-June-26, 20:07
Walddk, on Jun 26 2008, 05:22 PM, said:
Maybe this has been explained elsewhere and I missed it, but why do the Italians appear to have both a team selected through a political process as opposed to pairs or teams trials, and have as the person doing the selecting someone whose main qualification appears to be family money and not experience in high-level bridge?
#5
Posted 2008-June-26, 20:33
(still learning)
#6
Posted 2008-June-27, 02:23
There was always going to be a reshuffle of the team because of Bocchi and Duboin's imminent split (imo the strongest pair of the Italian team) and because it was felt the team needed a reshuffle anyway. So what if the first attempt didn't work out? Hardly a crime to give Sementa-Angelini a try.
Assuming the Italians don't claw back their 20 imp deficit in the last 4 matches, I'm pretty sure once the squad becomes Duboin-Sementa, Fontoni-Nunes, Versace-Lauria, they will go back to winning easily and often.
#7
Posted 2008-June-27, 02:49
brianshark, on Jun 27 2008, 03:23 AM, said:
There was always going to be a reshuffle of the team because of Bocchi and Duboin's imminent split (imo the strongest pair of the Italian team) and because it was felt the team needed a reshuffle anyway. So what if the first attempt didn't work out? Hardly a crime to give Sementa-Angelini a try.
Assuming the Italians don't claw back their 20 imp deficit in the last 4 matches, I'm pretty sure once the squad becomes Duboin-Sementa, Fontoni-Nunes, Versace-Lauria, they will go back to winning easily and often.
I am pretty sure this lineup is not going to occur. As I read in an interview, signora Lavazza said she was sure Fantoni-Nunes will return to the Italian team. In my interpretation this is equivalent to claiming that 'as long as I'm alive, Fantoni and Nunes will never play for Italy again'.
Szentendre, Hungary
#8
Posted 2008-June-27, 06:56
is there a precedent?
thanks
#9
Posted 2008-June-27, 08:09
theli, on Jun 27 2008, 07:56 AM, said:
is there a precedent?
thanks
This is politican's vocabulary. 'I am sure they will etc.' always means 'They will never etc.'
Szentendre, Hungary
#10
Posted 2008-June-27, 10:29
The Golden Rule will always apply, yes. OTOH, if she who has the gold makes repeated bad decisions, a different patron would be sought - and in Italy, probably found. However, she has a track record of making better decisions than most of the world...
We only know half the story, and (I'm sure) about one-tenth of the politics. No matter what got Sementa-Angelini on the team, it's going to take a lot of proven form for Mr. Angelini to get back. And isn't that what should happen?
#11
Posted 2008-June-27, 12:59
brianshark, on Jun 27 2008, 03:23 AM, said:
There was always going to be a reshuffle of the team because of Bocchi and Duboin's imminent split (imo the strongest pair of the Italian team) and because it was felt the team needed a reshuffle anyway. So what if the first attempt didn't work out? Hardly a crime to give Sementa-Angelini a try.
Assuming the Italians don't claw back their 20 imp deficit in the last 4 matches, I'm pretty sure once the squad becomes Duboin-Sementa, Fontoni-Nunes, Versace-Lauria, they will go back to winning easily and often.
This is my first post but please allow me to strongly disagree.
As an Italian living abroad I am really sick of yet another stupid Italian commedy (or melodrama).
The Italian bridge team has won I believe 8 European championship in a row head and shoulders above anybody else, to the point where in several occasions there was no point in playing the last to days of the event. It was together with Valentino Rossi one of the reason to be proud of Italy.
So what happens next? MT Lavazza (if it was really her decision) decides to dump what in my opinion is the best pair in Europe (many would disagree and it is difficult to pick a best pair against such champions as BD and LV, but in my opinion Fantunes are the best) to insert a guy who is a very big sponsor in Italian bridge, but certainly is not amongst the top 500 players in Italy.
It would be as if Berlusconi decided to play center half in the Italian footbell team because he sponsors Milan AC (mind you it could have been better than the way Toni performed).
When you say that MT Lavazza has chosen winning teams in the past, that was hardly a difficult task, given that Italy has the three best pairs in Europe. What is extremely remarkable from her is to have managed to struggle in the European championship by making this joke of a choice.
Maybe be next time we could have an interesting pair Angelini-Lavazza if women will be allowed, since apparently the Italian Bridge Federation is in such bad financial shape
#12
Posted 2008-June-27, 13:36
"since apparently the Italian Bridge Federation is in such bad financial shape "
If one lady is given all the power one can only ask why the dues paying membership prefer it this way. If the membership is not paying the bills and this lady is, I agree she should get to pick whoever she wants for whatever reasons she wants.
#13
Posted 2008-June-27, 14:05
vcaramazza, on Jun 27 2008, 09:59 PM, said:
Silly question:
Here in the US we normally have Open events and Women's events.
Women have the option to play in the Open events, however, men can't play in the Women's events.
I know that many International Events use a similar format (Recall Rose Meltzer).
Does the European Team's championships use a different format?
#14
Posted 2008-June-27, 14:51
Quote
No, but very few women play in the "Open" event. Doris Fischer from Austria is one.
#15
Posted 2008-June-27, 15:54
mike777, on Jun 27 2008, 02:36 PM, said:
I'm not Italian so it's not really my problem, but I could not disagree with this statement more strongly
#16
Posted 2008-June-27, 16:30
xcurt, on Jun 27 2008, 04:54 PM, said:
mike777, on Jun 27 2008, 02:36 PM, said:
I'm not Italian so it's not really my problem, but I could not disagree with this statement more strongly
Not sure what you disagree with. My question of what power she has been given? What bills she pays? My question what the membership has actually done? Which of these do you disagree with? Or do you disagree with my premise if she pays for everything and is granted unlimited power she should not use it?
If, I repeat if, they give her all the power and if she pays the bills what the heck do you expect her to do? It is naive to keep expecting her to do what you want or what you think it best for her to do. Of course I asked what the true facts are so who knows what power she was given or what she pays.
Again I think it is naive at best to think someone is going to keep paying the bills but do what you want or think is best if she strongly disagrees with you as you strongly disagree with me.
Bottom line it would be nice to know the full facts on who pays what and how the selection is made.
#17
Posted 2008-June-27, 18:01
mike777, on Jun 27 2008, 02:36 PM, said:
I agree entirely in the case of a club competition. The sponsor chooses his/her team and nothing wrong with that.
In the European club cup Laavazza and Angelini are the sponsors for two Italian team who have won most of the titles. Mr Angelini has played in one of them along Lauria, Versace and Fantunes. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.
But in this case we are talking about national teams: the team is called Italy and represents the Italian nation, so every efforts should be made to to field the best possible Italian players.
Mistakes in selection can obviously happen, but in this case nodody in the know doubts that Fantoni-Nunes are totally in another league and that Mrs Lavazza was certainly not trying to put together the best team.
This team should simply not be named Italy in my opinion.
I also would like to know how the team was really chosen, alll I can say is that the whole thing sounds like a big joke to me and not a pleasant one.
I am sure that the two Italian main pairs agree with most of the above, but they simply cannot say anything about it
#18
Posted 2008-June-27, 18:36
To what extent do other nations have similar problems?
Nick
#19
Posted 2008-June-27, 18:49
NickRW, on Jun 27 2008, 07:36 PM, said:
To what extent do other nations have similar problems?
Nick
Thanks for sympatising.
I don't think I have ever seen anything like that in any other team, nor in the Italian team either in the past. That is why I find the whole thing so crazy.
BTW I believe most of the poster here are from America, where things work in a very different way. Please allow me to remind that here in old Europe the concept of nation is quite a big deal: when you represent your own national country money should not be involved.
#20
Posted 2008-June-27, 21:43
"BTW I believe most of the poster here are from America, where things work in a very different way. Please allow me to remind that here in old Europe the concept of nation is quite a big deal: when you represent your own national country money should not be involved. "
You say money should not be involved but just based on this thread, and again no one is stating what the exact true facts are, it seems money is in fact the most important issue in Italy.
In this thread it has been suggested that every effort by the membership has NOT been made to field the best possible Italian players. If the membership does not make every effort why should she?
I think you guys are missing the main point in my posts.
1) Most important we need to know the facts of who is paying what and what powers have been delegated.
2) In my premise based just on posts from this thread, if the dues paying membership has abdicated all the bills for this event and abdicated all powers..not some...all to just one person it is the membership who is to blame not this one person. It is extremely naive to assume to give all this power to one person and then be shocked that she picks one teammate that posters say is not in the top 500 players in the country. If the dues paying membership and the leadership it votes in to lead the federation gives up the responsibility, why blame her?
3) Again it would be nice to have more facts, then just guesses, on who pays what and who has been given the power to pick the team but bottom line the membership must take full responsibility.