[velja_ja]

Scoring: IMP

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We played this board on tornament this night.
I oppened 2♦ as dealer on E ( weak major or strong balance ), South pass, my p 2♥ ( describe yourself NF ), 2♥ on N, pass, 3♥ South, 4♥ from W, 4♥, pass, pass, 5♥ W, pass, pass, dbl, all pass.

And lead was 2♥ !!! return ofc ♣!
Comments?

[matmat]

1) no. not suspicious.
2) don't post usernames of people involved, I believe it is against BBF policy.

[pclayton]

I had to look up the movie to find out what happened. A lot of the ♥ / ♠ symbols are messed up.

North made a newspaper lead and it paid off. Frankly with pard raising, its not that crazy.

You want suspicious? I'll post a hand from an ACBL tournament last week.

[velja_ja]

Maybe I messed up suits, spade was bid with same player, partner never support it ...

[jtfanclub]

Huh? South Supported spades, right? The one person who clearly doesn't have the spade king is East, so the odds seem to strongly favor South having the king of spades.

And since he underled the spade, he must have a void. South counted up the minor cards he could see: 5 diamonds, 7 clubs, and went with the odds.

I don't even consider this a newspaper lead.

Edit- but South is the one who X'd, right? What did you think that meant?

[velja_ja]

Well, obviously we r trying to find a def from 4♠ and it's ok to dbl us but still lead is very interesting

[jtfanclub]

velja_ja, on Jun 23 2008, 05:25 PM, said:

Well, obviously we r trying to find a def from 4♠ and it's ok to dbl us but still lead is very interesting

Don't most people play that X as lead directing, either asking for dummy's first bid strain (diamonds) or "partner lead your suit"?

[mikeh]

jtfanclub, on Jun 23 2008, 05:54 PM, said:

velja_ja, on Jun 23 2008, 05:25 PM, said:

Well, obviously we r trying to find a def from 4♠ and it's ok to dbl us but still lead is very interesting

Don't most people play that X as lead directing, either asking for dummy's first bid strain (diamonds) or "partner lead your suit"?

No, most people don't play double that way on this kind of auction. They play double as penalty: ie, they are not making (of course, that opinion may sometimes be mistaken) and I'd rather defend than bid.

It is definitely NOT a lightner double.

As for the lead, it seems reasonably normal to me, on the auction, and the choice of the 2 shouts the club void. There is nothing the least suspicious about this defence.

[jtfanclub]

mikeh, on Jun 23 2008, 06:00 PM, said:

No, most people don't play double that way on this kind of auction. They play double as penalty: ie, they are not making (of course, that opinion may sometimes be mistaken) and I'd rather defend than bid.

It is definitely NOT a lightner double.

As for the lead, it seems reasonably normal to me, on the auction, and the choice of the 2 shouts the club void. There is nothing the least suspicious about this defence.

2♦ P 2♥ 2♠
3♥ P 4♥ 4♠
-P- P 5♥ P
-P- X

I think that's what he intends the auction as. 2♦=Multi.

[velja_ja]

2♦ P 2♥ 2♠
P 3♥ 4♥ 4♠
-P- P 5♥ P
-P- X

This was auction

[jtfanclub]

velja_ja, on Jun 23 2008, 06:47 PM, said:

2♦ P 2♥ 2♠
P 3♥ 4♥ 4♠
-P- P 5♥ P
-P- X

This was auction

Oh! Well then, the X is not lead directional, but 3♥ surely showed considerable spade support.

[inquiry]

Assuming NS play 4th best leads, the lead of the spade two announces the need for a switch, usually a void somewhere (NOTE: this applies only when opening leader is known to be long in the lead suit, as here).

As for south not supporting spades, that is a clear mistatement, the 3♥ bid was clearly a strong spade raise, game try.

The defense looks entirely normal to me. Your partner's bidding might be examined for the future. I would think his reponse should be 2♠ (pass/correct), not 2♥. If you have spades, that is the right place, if you have hearts, you will bid them over 2♠.

[Trinidad]

inquiry, on Jun 24 2008, 08:18 AM, said:

Assuming NS play 4th best leads, the lead of the spade two announces the need for a switch, usually a void somewhere (NOTE: this applies only when opening leader is known to be long in the lead suit, as here).

As for south not supporting spades, that is a clear mistatement, the 3♥ bid was clearly a strong spade raise, game try. The defense looks entirely normal to me.

So far, I completely agree.

But the last part is a matter of style.

inquiry, on Jun 24 2008, 08:18 AM, said:

Your partner's bidding might be examined for the future. I would think his reponse should be 2♠ (pass/correct), not 2♥. If you have spades, that is the right place, if you have hearts, you will bid them over 2♠.

Most players that are less experienced with the multi will automatically bid 2♥. They have never heard of the possibility to bid 2♠. (And judging the OP's suspicions the defense, this may very well be the case here.) However, to say that the 'correct' response would be 2♠ goes way to far.

Among more experienced players there are many styles in responding to a Multi 2♦:

1) Many will automatically bid 2♠ with a hand that is short in spades and with at least three hearts (regardless of strength). Let's call it the preemptive approach.

2) Also many play that 2♠ shows invitational values for hearts (the invitational approach): The multi opener is supposed to bid 4♥ (or something else that clarifies his strength) with a maximum weak two in hearts. Clearly these players wouldn't bid 2♠ on this hand.

3) Quite a few experienced players play either 1) or 2), depending on the vulnerability: When VUL it is an invitation (2), NV it shows they are willing to preempt to 3♥ (1). The vulnerability approach.

4) And then there is the group of experienced players that very rarely bids 2♠. They reason that when 2♠ is corrected to 3♥, it pretty much transfers the opponents into a good spade contract. By 'always' bidding 2♥, they leave the opponents in the dark: The mystery approach.

You clearly belong to category 1. That's ok with me. I will play this style if my partner likes it that way.

But I prefer to play 3 or 4 (depending on who I play with). That style is perfectly fine too.

Rik