[rogerclee]

JoAnneM, on Jun 9 2008, 05:11 PM, said:

Then once you start comparing yourself to duplicate players what criteria do you use? Masterpoints?

No.

[NickRW]

Jlall, on Jun 9 2008, 08:59 PM, said:

...But I was really thinking about the reasons that I have not been playing my A game lately because for a while I was really in the zone, and I want to go back to that state.

Anyways, sucking was maybe a poor word choice, but I have not been playing great bridge and I can just tell with the way my thinking is at the table, it's less clear and less sharp.

Well, I would guess something changed. We don't know what that was, so you won't find the answer here - and you don't need to answer here either coz we don't really need to know - but you need to answer for yourself. Anyhow, my money is on something changed, something happened - it could be at the table - it could be away from it - and you need to look for it just before you noticed the "less clear" state.

My two cents of amateur sports psychology...

Nick

[matmat]

JoAnneM, on Jun 9 2008, 07:11 PM, said:

Maybe you need to define "suck at bridge".

I think it is safe to say that most kitchen table bridge players don't use a lot of the conventions that an average duplicate bridge player uses. So once you have become a duplicate player or an advanced money bridge players you have probably become a better player than most kitchen table players. And I am using huge generalizations.

Then once you start comparing yourself to duplicate players what criteria do you use? Masterpoints? I have more points than 142,000 members of the ACBL but I am only a SLM so lots of you would probably say I "suck at bridge" but at my local club I am the mentor to several players.

Or how about the online players who don't have the points but have become really good by playing endless games. They know the conventions, the plays, etc, they are just anonymous and don't have the reputations.

What I am saying is that you don't have to be in the pro ranks to be a "non-sucker at bridge". Lots of you are already there, they just don't want you to know it.

I think if you suck at bridge, you know you suck. To me the definition is based on honest self-evaluation. When I look at a session i've played and can point to a laundry list of elementary mistakes i have made. I can safely wallow in my suckitude.

[jillybean]

For all of the above reasons (minus the alcohol) I suck at this game but then sometimes I rock and both are what keeps me coming back.

[JoAnneM]

Sucking one day and rocking another day is a good mix. I don't think we should worry about it, just have fun.

[zasanya]

NickRW, on Jun 9 2008, 01:47 PM, said:

zasanya, on Jun 9 2008, 05:07 PM, said:

Thanks for your subtle hint  that my question was  philosophic AND 'not useful' AND not interesting. .
Actually I was really curious  to know why Jlall whom I have kibbitzed many times and whose comments I read with great interest should think he'sucks'at Bridge?

I was implying it was potentially philosophic. However, I wasn't implying disinterest, quite the reverse in fact. The mind set of a person who thinks they suck when they either don't or only suck less than they imagine is an extremely interesting topic.

I was hoping you might comment further. Clearly I misread you as you misread me. No hard feelings...

Nick

P.S. Unlike one or two, sarcasm is not my style - I don't tend to say things and mean something else. If I say another might have something interesting to say, I mean it. I concede my statement was capable of the reverse interpretation.

My apologies for misreading you.

[Codo]

I only suck at bridge when I choose my partners because they all suck at the table. Could be the only explanation for my years of missing success. I am perfect.

Well seriously there are the same problems anybody has and the main problem is that I am tired too quick.

I think that I should stop working on bidding, carding and play and start with jogging, swimming and biking. This will make it easier to concentrate longer and will be much better for my game then learning anything about the double squeeze.


I just analyszed the latest German Team Championship. Over 168 boards my partnership could have earned around 220 imps more when we had just made no easy mistakes (mistake we find ourself in the post mortem) in the hands that really count.
Okay, it is impossible to avoid all easy mistakes, it happens to the best. But if we find a way to stop sucking at bridge, we will improve much more then we would from a wonderful bidding or carding system or a well played compound squeeze. It would be just less sexy.

[brianshark]

Winning is sexy so do whatever it takes to win. Even if it seems mundane.

[han]

Justin I'm not going to say that you are too harsh on yourself because obviously you know your own game better than I do. But a couple months ago you were playing absolutely fantastic bridge. If you are really unhappy about how you have been playing lately then I am confident that you will come out of it stronger.

[y66]

Okay, you suck. Now what?

How do you increase confidence, concentration, focus and visualization skills? How do you get back in the zone (your zone)?

Dr. Grue?

[Vilgan]

Eh? I don't think most of the posters in this thread *actually* suck at bridge. Those who suck tend to be those who don't expend the effort to get better by doing things like perusing the BBO forums. I just figured the title was a play off of the book with the similar (same?) name.

[y66]

Denial is a good strategy.

In his mind, I don't think Jack Nicklaus has ever missed a key putt. He refuses to remember the ones that didn't go in.

[ArcLight]

>Those who suck tend to be those who don't expend the effort to get better by doing things like perusing the BBO forums

LOL


Some expert (I think at Freds level or above,I don't remember who - maybe Hamman) said you should spend 1/3 of your bridge time studying. First reading, then as you improve, reviwing your play. Look at your mistakes, keep trac k of them. Are you making the same types of mistakes?

I would suck A LOT less if I was a proficient counter.

[helene_t]

Vilgan, on Jun 10 2008, 01:26 PM, said:

Those who suck tend to be those who don't expend the effort to get better by doing things like perusing the BBO forums.

Yes, everyone outside of BBF suck. Finally something we can all agree on

[OrShoham]

This one's easy: Over-elaboration. Same problem I have in chess (which has, on one occasion, resulted in getting checkmated in two moves. Yes, it's possible). I look twelve cards ahead, figure out some horribly elaborate ending position, fail to notice something obvious ("What, you mean I have to lose the ace of trumps?"), and go down in a cold game.

Even worse, in bidding, I sometimes spend so much time figuring out what hands partner and opps *might* have that I forget to consider some obvious layout and go for -1400 in a phantom save.

Ah, well.

[irdoz]

The 'visualize' thing is interesting...

In chess I can play without a board - and can picture what the board will look like a number of moves ahead. I used to catch the train to school and play chess against a friend with no pieces or board - much to the amusement of others on the train.

In bridge I can't visualise a thing - the missing cards somehow make it impossible - you not only have to picture different possible hands but then diffierent possible plays. And Im really bad at using inferences to help make a picture of the missing cards. In chess everything is known - in bridge there are a lot of unkmowns.

I also think the difference between my chess skill is I started playing at 6 - but didnt play bridge till I was much older. In chess I had access to top players and listening to them was the best way to learn - the stuff you don't get from books. I dont have the same access in bridge - and often there would be not a lot of point me going over the hands because when I can see all 4 hands I can (sometimes) see the errors but the conditions dont replicate the problem i was facing.

[vuroth]

Right now, I don't play enough.

I believe in my ability, and I believe that I'll develop the right skills if I work on them. What I really need now is grindstone time.

[Hanoi5]

matmat, on Jun 9 2008, 03:38 AM, said:

EricK, on Jun 9 2008, 01:31 AM, said:

But everybody knows "The 5 level belongs the oposition".

p always sits opposite me...

Excellent answer. Siggable.

I have many of the problems mentioned so far, especially lazyness and lack of concentration. Discipline is the way to overcome them but... It's hard.

[MickyB]

pclayton, on Jun 8 2008, 05:04 PM, said:

MickyB, on Jun 7 2008, 06:37 PM, said:

It's odd, I go through phases where I make few mistakes, and phases where I make many.

This happens a lot to me, but if you are really improving, your errors will keep getting smaller as your game oscillates between great sessions and slumps.

If you feel you are getting worse - time to hit the books again.

Maybe my recent poor form is due to starting to play a fair bit of online poker (I'm seeing if I can make a living at it). This has meant -

I've played less bridge

I've been staying up later, as the site I've been playing on doesn't really start to get busy until late afternoon, and there are Yanks to keep playing against until the next morning, if I choose

I've been thinking about poker when I may otherwise have been thinking about bridge


Hmm, looking at that it seems fairly clear there's a connection. I might well move to a different (busier) poker site soon, that would hopefully reduce the temptation to stay up late. Someone said to me that, when you've been unemployed for a while, starting to work full time messes up your bridge for about three months. I guess this is the same thing.

[FrancesHinden]

MickyB, on Jun 11 2008, 07:27 PM, said:

Someone said to me that, when you've been unemployed for a while, starting to work full time messes up your bridge for about three months. I guess this is the same thing.

three months?
working full time messes your bridge up permanently.

(That's possibly true even if it includes working full time playing bridge.)