[pclayton]

MickyB, on Jun 7 2008, 06:37 PM, said:

It's odd, I go through phases where I make few mistakes, and phases where I make many.

This happens a lot to me, but if you are really improving, your errors will keep getting smaller as your game oscillates between great sessions and slumps.

If you feel you are getting worse - time to hit the books again.

[helene_t]

pclayton, on Jun 8 2008, 06:00 PM, said:

MarkDean, on Jun 7 2008, 08:19 PM, said:

Two areas I suck at are opening leads and competitve decision: should I bid 3 over 3, should I double 5C or bid 5H? 

Why do I suck at those things?  Not really sure, but I do.

Always bid 5♥.

Yes, especially if opps are vulnerable

[brianshark]

Hand evaluation and competitive bidding decisions can be improved by study.

Visualisation and counting can be improved by discipline and practice.

The jury's still out for me but I'm starting to question whether there really is "insurmountable natural talent that no untalented person can overcome by hard work". Maybe it's just a defeatist attitude proventing people who aren't initially conditioned to be successful from deliberately improving themself?

Anyway, by far my biggest problem these days is concentration. Quitting a trick before I've "absorbed" the spots that were played, making a bidding decision or a card playing decision before forcing myself to consider the alternatives/risks/etc and things like that. It's something I'm working on and it is improving. I'm slowing my game down deliberately to make myself concentrate more on every decision. I'm hoping tht while I'll slow down for the time being, I'll eventually train myself to make the same analysis except quicker and I'll be a better player because of it.

[JanM]

helene_t, on Jun 7 2008, 06:17 PM, said:

Good players talk about "visualizing" the deal. That is something I just can't.

This interested me, because a psychologist bridge player (Andy Bernstein for anyone old enough to know him ) once suggested that difficulty visualizing hands is one of the main reasons women aren't as good at bridge as men. I've often thought that was true - one of my constant errors is not realizing what my hand will look like after some number of tricks have been played - I just don't notice that I'll have to pitch x cards and can't hold all the nice positions I now have.

My personal biggest issue is, I think, concentration (or rather lack of it).

[MarkDean]

pclayton, on Jun 8 2008, 12:00 PM, said:

MarkDean, on Jun 7 2008, 08:19 PM, said:

Two areas I suck at are opening leads and competitve decision: should I bid 3 over 3, should I double 5C or bid 5H? 

Why do I suck at those things?  Not really sure, but I do.

Always bid 5♥.

I can't help you with 3 over 3.

Funny you say that. Today I had such a decision (well ok it was pass 5♦ or bid 5♥), I bid 5♥, got doubled and partner played it well to go down 1, with 5♦ off 3. Too bad I had not read your post yet, or I could have blamed you.

[cnszsun]

I can't play fast. If i did i would make a lot of avoidable mistakes.

[EricK]

MarkDean, on Jun 9 2008, 04:27 AM, said:

pclayton, on Jun 8 2008, 12:00 PM, said:

MarkDean, on Jun 7 2008, 08:19 PM, said:

Two areas I suck at are opening leads and competitve decision: should I bid 3 over 3, should I double 5C or bid 5H? 

Why do I suck at those things?  Not really sure, but I do.

Always bid 5♥.

I can't help you with 3 over 3.

Funny you say that. Today I had such a decision (well ok it was pass 5♦ or bid 5♥), I bid 5♥, got doubled and partner played it well to go down 1, with 5♦ off 3. Too bad I had not read your post yet, or I could have blamed you.

But everybody knows "The 5 level belongs the oposition".

[matmat]

EricK, on Jun 9 2008, 01:31 AM, said:

But everybody knows "The 5 level belongs the oposition".

p always sits opposite me...

[Trumpace]

Many reasons..

1) Bidding does not appeal to me (though that is changing...), so required focus is just not there.

2) Mental laziness while declaring. Usually follow the first line that comes mind. Perhaps because I mostly play online only.

3) Insufficient visualization during defense.

4) Missing inferences during the defense and play of the hand (and during bidding too).

3 & 4 are the hardest to overcome for almost everyone I suppose.

I also think that, with sufficient work and an open mind, anyone can play well enough to not suck at bridge (within a reasonable amount of time).

[zasanya]

Jlall, on Jun 7 2008, 01:20 AM, said:

What causes you to suck at bridge and keeps you from being the best?

For me I think it is lack of focus (at bridge tournaments there are a lot of distractions, social and otherwise), and too much ego.

What makes you think you suck at Bridge?What makes you think you are not one of the best if not the best?
Is it perhaps subject for another thread?

[NickRW]

zasanya, on Jun 9 2008, 08:33 AM, said:

Jlall, on Jun 7 2008, 01:20 AM, said:

What causes you to suck at bridge and keeps you from being the best?

For me I think it is lack of focus (at bridge tournaments there are a lot of distractions, social and otherwise), and too much ego.

What makes you think you suck at Bridge?What makes you think you are not one of the best if not the best?
Is it perhaps subject for another thread?

Well, now you're potentially getting philosophic. I see in your profile you're from or reside in India - I'm sure you can say something useful or at least interesting...

My observation of people who are good at something which most find difficult (bridge or otherwise) is that they, apart from posessing natural talent,

1. Work/study/train hard
2. Pay attention to the smallest detail
3. If they're really good, are not afraid to share their knowledge.

This gives rise to a comfortable, but at the same time commanding presence - at the table in the case of bridge of course. Such people give the impression of being in control and always having adequate time.

Nick

[Apollo81]

1. Lack of focus. For whatever reason this seems to happen way less in IMP events than at MPs.

2. Slow double dummy analysis, which has been a result of playing less since the end of 2004. The effect of this is that I declare complex hands much more slowly, and sometimes worse (see 1) than I used to.

[zasanya]

NickRW, on Jun 9 2008, 10:21 AM, said:

zasanya, on Jun 9 2008, 08:33 AM, said:

Jlall, on Jun 7 2008, 01:20 AM, said:

What causes you to suck at bridge and keeps you from being the best?

For me I think it is lack of focus (at bridge tournaments there are a lot of distractions, social and otherwise), and too much ego.

What makes you think you suck at Bridge?What makes you think you are not one of the best if not the best?
Is it perhaps subject for another thread?

Well, now you're potentially getting philosophic. I see in your profile you're from or reside in India - I'm sure you can say something useful or at least interesting...

Thanks for your subtle hint that my question was philosophic AND 'not useful' AND not interesting. .
Actually I was really curious to know why Jlall whom I have kibbitzed many times and whose comments I read with great interest should think he'sucks'at Bridge?

[mikeh]

zasanya, on Jun 9 2008, 12:07 PM, said:

NickRW, on Jun 9 2008, 10:21 AM, said:

zasanya, on Jun 9 2008, 08:33 AM, said:

Jlall, on Jun 7 2008, 01:20 AM, said:

What causes you to suck at bridge and keeps you from being the best?

For me I think it is lack of focus (at bridge tournaments there are a lot of distractions, social and otherwise), and too much ego.

What makes you think you suck at Bridge?What makes you think you are not one of the best if not the best?
Is it perhaps subject for another thread?

Well, now you're potentially getting philosophic. I see in your profile you're from or reside in India - I'm sure you can say something useful or at least interesting...

Thanks for your subtle hint that my question was philosophic AND 'not useful' AND not interesting. .

Quote

Actually I was really curious  to know why Jlall whom I have kibbitzed many times and whose comments I read with great interest should think he'sucks'at Bridge?

Everything is relative, but 'every player sucks at bridge' to some degree.... while I am sure that Justin has many hands of which he is proud, I suspect that the ones that he spends most time ruminating about are the ones where he could/should have done better.

The better you are, the higher your expectations of self become. I recently lost the Canadian Team Trials (The CNTC), and the only hands I remember fron the sets my partner and I played in the finals are the ones we screwed up.

Put another way: if you are capable of recognizing an error that you have made, you are bound to think that you shouldn't have made that error. So you 'suck'.. you made an error that you should have avoided.

[NickRW]

zasanya, on Jun 9 2008, 05:07 PM, said:

Thanks for your subtle hint  that my question was  philosophic AND 'not useful' AND not interesting. .
Actually I was really curious  to know why Jlall whom I have kibbitzed many times and whose comments I read with great interest should think he'sucks'at Bridge?

I was implying it was potentially philosophic. However, I wasn't implying disinterest, quite the reverse in fact. The mind set of a person who thinks they suck when they either don't or only suck less than they imagine is an extremely interesting topic.

I was hoping you might comment further. Clearly I misread you as you misread me. No hard feelings...

Nick

P.S. Unlike one or two, sarcasm is not my style - I don't tend to say things and mean something else. If I say another might have something interesting to say, I mean it. I concede my statement was capable of the reverse interpretation.

[barmar]

Jlall, on Jun 9 2008, 04:59 PM, said:

zasanya, on Jun 9 2008, 12:07 PM, said:

NickRW, on Jun 9 2008, 10:21 AM, said:

zasanya, on Jun 9 2008, 08:33 AM, said:

Jlall, on Jun 7 2008, 01:20 AM, said:

What causes you to suck at bridge and keeps you from being the best?

For me I think it is lack of focus (at bridge tournaments there are a lot of distractions, social and otherwise), and too much ego.

What makes you think you suck at Bridge?What makes you think you are not one of the best if not the best?
Is it perhaps subject for another thread?

Well, now you're potentially getting philosophic. I see in your profile you're from or reside in India - I'm sure you can say something useful or at least interesting...

Thanks for your subtle hint that my question was philosophic AND 'not useful' AND not interesting. .
Actually I was really curious to know why Jlall whom I have kibbitzed many times and whose comments I read with great interest should think he'sucks'at Bridge?

Well, tbh I was at a bar with Joe and I was like "I've been playing really bad lately [which is true, relatively speaking], I wonder why I suck" and he said "Not everyone can be Joe Grue" lol. But I was really thinking about the reasons that I have not been playing my A game lately because for a while I was really in the zone, and I want to go back to that state.

Anyways, sucking was maybe a poor word choice, but I have not been playing great bridge and I can just tell with the way my thinking is at the table, it's less clear and less sharp.

Everything's relative. Many of us would give plenty to be able to play Justin's B game.

[pclayton]

Frankly its healthy to think you suck. If you think you are better than everyone, you can stop working on your game.

[Winstonm]

Perhaps you have answered your own question:

Quote

Well, tbh I was at a bar with Joe

[JoAnneM]

Maybe you need to define "suck at bridge".

I think it is safe to say that most kitchen table bridge players don't use a lot of the conventions that an average duplicate bridge player uses. So once you have become a duplicate player or an advanced money bridge players you have probably become a better player than most kitchen table players. And I am using huge generalizations.

Then once you start comparing yourself to duplicate players what criteria do you use? Masterpoints? I have more points than 142,000 members of the ACBL but I am only a SLM so lots of you would probably say I "suck at bridge" but at my local club I am the mentor to several players.

Or how about the online players who don't have the points but have become really good by playing endless games. They know the conventions, the plays, etc, they are just anonymous and don't have the reputations.

What I am saying is that you don't have to be in the pro ranks to be a "non-sucker at bridge". Lots of you are already there, they just don't want you to know it.