[kenrexford]

You open 1NT (15-17). LHO doubles (one minor or both majors). Partner transfers to hearts and then bids 3NT. When you look at your hand and visualize possible hands for partner, you have the usual debate -- 3NT? 4♥? 3NT? 4♥?

Now, it seemed to me, in assessing an actual problem hand, that Responder, under these circumstances, should probably vid a three-card minor fragment with some hands that, without interference, would simply transfer and then bid 3NT. For instance, 1NT-X-2♦-P-2♥-P-3♣ might be a sequence where Responder might have some sort of balanced hand with a diamond fragment, offering a choice of games and isolating the diamond problem.

So, how about a transfer and then three of the major? Usually, this is a slam move, agreeing hearts. IMO, this may make more sense as including a balanced hand with problems in both minors, when in competition. Games before slams and all.

Then again, maybe the calls should indicate heart suit quality. Better quality might suggest a rip-them 3NT to avoid a minor-suit ruff, whereas weaker quality might suggest the major game. Which shows what is the question. Would a direct 3NT imply the better heart suit, or a slower auction of bidding a fragmentary minor or 3♠?

With the actual hand, 4♥ made because of poor defense but should be set at least two tricks, best lead three, when 3NT is cold. My first thought was that a bid of a fragmentary minor (or 3♠) should suggest hesitant hearts and, accordingly, that a direct 3NT should show sound hearts.

Thoughts?

[han]

I lost you when you said that 3m should be a fragment in a balanced hand. I expect partner to bid 3NT with all 5332 hands. If 3m can be xx Axxxx KQx xxx as well as all 5-5 hands then it just gets too tough.

Whether I correct to 4H with 3 hearts depends a lot on my spade holding. I would correct more often here than if the opponents had been silent.

[gnasher]

han, on May 29 2008, 07:59 AM, said:

Whether I correct to 4H with 3 hearts depends a lot on my spade holding.

Why is your spade holding so important? Once we're known to have eight hearts between us, it's likely that LHO has a minor, so spades are probably not a big concern.

[han]

I misread the explanation of the double, agree that the spade holding is not relevant.

Did anybody find that feeling-like-a-chimpanzee smilie?

[gnasher]

I don't usually worry about stops in these auctions. The notrump opener usually has a stop anyway, and the discussion about stops may help them to find a killing lead in another suit.

Your suggestion about 3♣/♦ might be worthwhile if the only thing you were giving up were some accuracy in the slam zone, but as Han points out you probably need these sequences for game-going two suiters.

Regarding suit quality, I think that even in uncontested auctions you should have two ways to show five hearts and a raise to 3NT: one that says "Bid 4♥ with three cards", and another that says "Use your judgement". That would alleviate some of the problems on this sequence.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2008-May-29, 01:29

[benlessard]

Agree that some agreement must be used (at the price of accuracy for slam bidding) especially when the overcall is LHO of the opener. AJxxx vs Kxx is often 2 trumps loser and 3 nt is cold because openener has a 5 card minor.

[kenrexford]

Opener's actual hand was: ♠AKxx ♥Q10x ♦KQx ♣Kxx

Maybe you have one view or the other regardless of methods. Tweak the hand if you want.

I find it rather humorous that I am actually thinking that a bid of three of the other major, usually a slam move, should be reserved as initially a choice-of-games move, on the "game before slam" principle.

[pclayton]

Shrug.

A Meckwell double is a lot like a Suction overcall. Over Suction, there's plenty to gain by passing with a strong hand initially. You don't mind a bit if the double is left in, and you'll know the character of the doublers hand if you pass. Delayed Lebensohl makes a lot of sense in this auction too.

I think what Ken is focusing on with this fragment discussion is to find out if if we are open in LHO's hidden minor.

[han]

I agree with gnasher that it is good to always have two ways to offer a choice of games. After one opener would always correct to 4M, after the other opener would often pass with 4333 hands.

Arend and I use transfer extensions more or less as described in Justin's blog. 1NT-transfer-accept-3NT offers a real choice, 1NT-transfer-accept-3S forces partner to bid 4M with 3-card support.

There are of course many more ways to tweak the system so that you have two COG bids available. I don't think your slam bidding has to suffer for this as benlessard suggests. And certainly you don't have to give up showing 2-suiters.