[Winstonm]

As South, you open a 15-17 1NT and are immediately placed in 6NT. The opening lead is the Jack of hearts.
You have 11 top tricks and will therefore need 2 tricks from spades...but also need to avoid losing 2 spades.
Over to you - how do you tackel the spade suit?

(Advanced and experts should reply with hidden text.)

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[jdonn]

Have to reply or no one will! jk

Spoiler

Start spades by playing a low one off dummy. If rho has Kx (or more to the king for lots of players) they will go up with the king and spare you the losing finesse. It's also right to duck a round first anyway just in case of singleton king offside.

[kenrexford]

Josh is out of his mind. Lunacy. I think it is 100% to play RHO for KJ10 or KJ109 in spades. Strip all of the winners and then duck a spade to RHO.

Spoiler

Just kidding. This seemed to easy, so I thought I'd pretend to start a debate.

[Winstonm]

Perhaps I should not have used an entire hand, as the point I was trying to make was simply the way to play AQxx opposite xxx for only one loser.

Josh hit the nail on the head as to the point and the reasons.

[neilkaz]

What's more likely, Josh's line catering to a stiff K from RHO or from RHO jumping up with Kx or more, or Ken's line stripping the hand and hoping RHO is forced to win the trick while you play the 7 from dummy ? Note that if you try the strip, sometimes RHO can disard down to Kx and a side winner, avoiding the endplay.

[Edmunte1]

At table i would have tried jdonn's table, and played it fastly.

[jdonn]

neilkaz, on May 26 2008, 10:04 AM, said:

What's more likely, Josh's line catering to a stiff K from RHO or from RHO jumping up with Kx or more, or Ken's line stripping the hand and hoping RHO is forced to win the trick while you play the 7 from dummy ? Note that if you try the strip, sometimes RHO can disard down to Kx and a side winner, avoiding the endplay.

Unless he is KJT-3-4-3 or KJT9-3-4-3 minus 1. I think this line is clearly worse vs almost all players, but it's good to think of.

[whereagles]

low spade off dummy is nice and elementary, but I must say I'm not sure I would have tought of it.. lol

[Winstonm]

whereagles, on May 26 2008, 11:54 AM, said:

low spade off dummy is nice and elementary, but I must say I'm not sure I would have tought of it.. lol

This is the reason I posted this here in beginner/intermediate - again, I probably should have simply posted the suit combination so as not to confuse.

The only point I was trying to shed light on was as declarer viewing the problem from the defender's perspective, understanding that defenders do not play perfectly, and that in this holding by leading a low spade at trick 2 you can induce an error at virtually no cost. (That turns out to be wrong if the endplay is available, so that's why a full hand wasn't such a good idea.)

[kenrexford]

Uh, y'all didn't check the hidden text.

[rbforster]

Aside from tricking East into rising K from Kx, wouldn't A♠ then up to the Q cater to the stiff K similarly? I like the possibility of a slow West not playing a high enough spot card to stop the strip and endplay myself, but obviously this won't always develop.

[NickRW]

Rob F, on May 27 2008, 03:04 PM, said:

Aside from tricking East into rising K from Kx, wouldn't A♠ then up to the Q cater to the stiff K similarly?

Yes.

Given what this forum is, this problem may have been better presented as a straight card combo. How do you play AQxx oppposite xxx for 2 tricks and not 2 losers.

Someone who has never been presented with the problem before might initially think, "Hmm, isn't this a straight finesse, 50/50 chance - how can I do any better?"

The next observation would be, "How about cash the ace and play low to the queen? That catches the K single on the right as well and still offers the same chance as the finesse"

Then you notice that leading low to the dummy and simply ducking has the same chance to drop the K single.

Then you notice that leading low off the table instead of doing it from hand puts RHO holding Kx in a seemingly difficult position - especially if done early in the hand before defenders have had much of chance to figure out what is going on.

Nick

[Winstonm]

NickRW, on May 27 2008, 12:47 PM, said:

Rob F, on May 27 2008, 03:04 PM, said:

Aside from tricking East into rising K from Kx, wouldn't A♠ then up to the Q cater to the stiff K similarly?

Yes.

Given what this forum is, this problem may have been better presented as a straight card combo. How do you play AQxx oppposite xxx for 2 tricks and not 2 losers.

Someone who has never been presented with the problem before might initially think, "Hmm, isn't this a straight finesse, 50/50 chance - how can I do any better?"

The next observation would be, "How about cash the ace and play low to the queen? That catches the K single on the right as well and still offers the same chance as the finesse"

Then you notice that leading low to the dummy and simply ducking has the same chance to drop the K single.

Then you notice that leading low off the table instead of doing it from hand puts RHO holding Kx in a seemingly difficult position - especially if done early in the hand before defenders have had much of chance to figure out what is going on.

Nick

Exactly, Nick. I screwed up by using an entire hand.

[NickRW]

Winstonm, on May 27 2008, 10:58 PM, said:

Exactly, Nick. I screwed up by using an entire hand.

I don't think you screwed up at all. Nobody had presented that problem to me before. I got three parts through the thought process - and had to be told about the last - so I'm happy you did what you did.

Nick