[mr1303]

Scoring: MP

---

Partner opens 1C, and the auction continues:

1C (1H) 1S* (3H**)
4C (P) P*** (X)
P (P) ?

* 5 + spades. Do you agree with this? I didn't think this one particularly controversial.
** Limit raise, roughly 10-11 support points. NOT pre-emptive.
*** 4D here would be forcing.

Do you put down a worthless dummy, or hope for a better fit (and hopefully result) in a pointed suit?

[helene_t]

pass.

[han]

pass.

[neilkaz]

Passing faster than Helene and Han here ..well just as fast.

PD free bid 4♣ !! Should have quite the suit and some extra strength. PD neglected to bid 4♠, opps didn't bid 4♥ so unfortunately PD may also have two. What makes my think 4 of a pointed suit plays any better.

WTP pass...noting that I am happy to have a club and won't take a 2nd call with junk.

... neilkaz ...wondering if pass or negX (finds 5-4 fits which is what I really want when this weak, but may do a bit more(depending on style) than 1♠ did to misslead PD as to my strength)

[han]

If you don't want to bid 1S because you are too light then you pass. Double is both an overbid and a misbid and holds no attraction at all.

[neilkaz]

han, on May 25 2008, 02:39 PM, said:

If you don't want to bid 1S because you are too light then you pass. Double is both an overbid and a misbid and holds no attraction at all.

Thx..I'd probably have bid 1♠ here as it is the boss suit, but I don't mind pass, but after that pass forever. I'd feel better with 1♠ if my King of ♦ were swapped for a ♠x however.

re NegX thx for the expert cmty. I have seen several bad results when PD try this with 5-5 or even more distribution and very light hands, and almost few good ones and have noted we may have gotten to the good contract anyhow.

This is what this forum is for, and I appreciate it.

My Bergen book on NegX should arrive very soon. I ordered it, since it has been made clear to me that I was not taught negX properly by the bidding system "genius" who taught me 2/1. First he taught me neg free bid, which obviously requires since differences in negX style (though not on this hand) and then he decided we'd be better off not playing neg free bid, but the confusion occasionally still creeps into my negX sequences.

[rogerclee]

Every action you have taken is clear, including the pass right now.

[P_Marlowe]

Pass.

I may have passed 1H, but 1S is ok as well,
not m cup of coffee, but ok.

I pass now as well.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

neilkaz, on May 25 2008, 02:56 PM, said:

<snip>
My Bergen book on NegX should arrive very soon. I ordered it, since it has been made clear to me that I was not taught negX properly by the bidding system "genius" who taught me 2/1. First he taught me neg free bid, which obviously requires since differences in negX style (though not on this hand) and then he decided we'd be better off not playing neg free bid, but the confusion occasionally still creeps into my negX sequences.

Good Luck.

Bergen introduced neg. free bids.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[neilkaz]

P_Marlowe, on May 25 2008, 03:24 PM, said:

neilkaz, on May 25 2008, 02:56 PM, said:

<snip>
My Bergen book on NegX should arrive very soon. I ordered it, since it has been made clear to me that I was not taught negX properly by the bidding system "genius" who taught me 2/1. First he taught me neg free bid, which obviously requires since differences in negX style (though not on this hand) and then he decided we'd be better off not playing neg free bid, but the confusion occasionally still creeps into my negX sequences.

Good Luck.

Bergen introduced neg. free bids.

With kind regards
Marlowe

Thx Marlowe this is a recently modern book, last 10 years I think, and I don;t recall reading any reviews indicating the style presented advocated NFB, if so...well I've misspent 10 bucks before

[han]

P_Marlowe, on May 25 2008, 03:24 PM, said:

Bergen introduced neg. free bids.

Can anybody confirm this?

[helene_t]

han, on May 25 2008, 10:50 PM, said:

P_Marlowe, on May 25 2008, 03:24 PM, said:

Bergen introduced neg. free bids.

Can anybody confirm this?

I think Bergen recommends negative freebids in one of his books but I have no clue in which situation they apply. To play this 1♠ bid as non-forcing seems very weird to me (and I am not opposed to NFB per se).

[han]

I thought people were playing negative freebids well before Bergen wrote those books.

[helene_t]

han, on May 25 2008, 11:05 PM, said:

I thought people were playing negative freebids well before Bergen wrote those books.

I thought everyone played negative freebids before Culbertson.

[kenrexford]

Negative free bids have been around forever, I'm sure. I remember them being used a lot back in the early 90's, and I'm sure they were around much before then.

I'd like to say that I would pass 1♥, and I probably should, but I probably would not. Having made an idiotic overbid, I'm passing throughout and checking my wallet for beer money.

[Winstonm]

Would have passed 1C. Will now pass 4C.

[gnasher]

Crowhurst was writing about negative free bids (though he called them something else) in 1980, and I doubt if he was the first.

[655321]

Agree with 1♠, and pass now.

[P_Marlowe]

han, on May 25 2008, 04:50 PM, said:

P_Marlowe, on May 25 2008, 03:24 PM, said:

Bergen introduced neg. free bids.

Can anybody confirm this?

Better Bidding with Bergen Vol. 1 was written 1985.
Bergen had a column in the ACBL news letter since
1976, the column dealt with conventions.
The Bergen-Cohen partnership did already exist for
3 years in 1985.
I found both information on the back cover of the book.

So, neg. free bids existed in the early 90's, and in the
mid 80's, but the Better Bidding with Bergen Vol. 2,
which describes neg. free bids was written during this
time as well

I dont know, if Bergen invented them, but at least he
made them popular (at least to a certain degree).

With kind regards
Marlowe

[hotShot]

1982 Alan Truscott considered neg. free bids hyper-modern in his column at the New York Times.