[gwnn]

1NT-2♥
2♠-2NT
3♠

where 2♥ showed spades and 2NT showed clubs, GF. Opener showed 3-card support of course. What should responder's 3rd round bids show here? In particular, should 3NT be serious/frivolous or pattern out (5422) ?

[han]

New suit shortness (although with Arend I play it shows shortness in the other suit), 3NT start cuebidding, 4C shows 5-5.

[andy_h]

After that sequence, my partner and I play,
3NT = 5-5
4C/D = Low/High shortage
4H/S/NT = Slam Try/SignOff/Keycard

[FrancesHinden]

We play that 3♠ denies a club fit and is not particularly slam suitable. Our continuations are

3NT = NF 5224
4C = 5/5 slam interest
4red = cue for spades

we would pattern out at the 3-level, so
1NT - 2H
2S - 2NT
3C -

3red = 3 cards in the suit bid, singleton in the other red suit
but here 3C denied a spade fit and denied a grossly unsuitable hand for the blacks so we are still hunting for the right strain.

[kenrexford]

A point of thought, here. You might want to think about options before even reaching this point. I'd imagine that 3♣ focuses clubs. If you have 3♦ by Opener focus spades, this opens up some room. Make 3♠ show some specific holding or whatever meaning 3♦ had that you cannot give up for some reason.

After 3♦ agreeing spades, you could use a scheme something like...

3♥ = stiff heart
3♠ = stiff club
3NT = no stiff
4♣ = Picture (no side controls, but good internal cards in suits)
4♦ = Picture (stiff, no control other suit, good cards in suits)
4♥ = Picture (same)
4♠ = Weak (less than two with the Queen, plus even worse -- dead minimum)

Something like that. The pictures help define the non-pictures. 4♠ should be well defined. Myself, I'd make 4♠ the no stiffs picture and reserve 4♣ for a bust hand, allowing 4♦ to demand the stiff in case Opener has a rock. I'd also define "good internal cards" better.

I mean, you have grabbed space by transfers, so why not keep up the good work and grab space for the major? If you have a meaning for 3♠ like described by FrancesHidden, then let us know the nuance.

[FrancesHinden]

kenrexford, on May 22 2008, 01:47 PM, said:

A point of thought, here. You might want to think about options before even reaching this point. I'd imagine that 3♣ focuses clubs. If you have 3♦ by Opener focus spades, this opens up some room. Make 3♠ show some specific holding or whatever meaning 3♦ had that you cannot give up for some reason.

We prefer to have step 1 (3♣) as fairly neutral, not promising a club fit. This allows responder to describe their hand further. The idea is to reach 4S on layouts such as

KQ10xx
Kxx
x
KJxx

Ax
Axxx
Jxxx
AQx

(1NT - 2H - 2S - 2NT - 3C- 3H (pattern) - 3S (Hx unsure) - 4S)

So 1NT - 2H - 2S - 2NT -
3C = uncertainty about strain (may have clubs)
3D = double fit (4 clubs and 3 spades)
3H = good hand with 3 spades
3S = 3-card support, not much slam interest
3NT = unsuitable for play in a black suit
4C = super-suitable for clubs

This is the only auction with extra room (both 3D and 3H), usually we just use 3 of the 'intermediate' suit, if there is one, to show a double fit.

But all this assumes you are playing transfer-retransfer as game forcing, which isn't compulsory.

It also assumes you don't bend your NT openings too much, so there's less use in opener showing odd shapes.

[kenrexford]

FrancesHinden, on May 22 2008, 08:04 AM, said:

[good stuff]

I like this, except how to show just clubs?