[jillybean]

Dealer: West Vul: All Scoring: IMP

♠ 2 ♥ AKT84 ♦ Q6542 ♣ AJ

West North East South

 1♠    Pass  4♠    ? and why 

[rogerclee]

Pass. I don't act on minimumish hands anymore in this position. Yes, they could go down huge, and yes, we could be getting stolen from, but that is why RHO bid 4♠.

[Echognome]

Double. Too many ways to win.

[andy_h]

X. The reason for RHO's 4S is to put pressure on us and giving us a guess. I am going to X - it's a decent hand but certainly not the most ideal.

[the hog]

4NT playable in 2 suits. If I double I am certainly not enamoured by a 5C bid.

[hotShot]

Even with no points in partners hand, just fit in the red suits you have a good chance to to make 8 tricks for -500, while 4♠ can easily make for 620.
♥Q or even just having 4 cards can make almost sure you get away with down one.
If partner happens to have tricks in ♠, he can convert your dbl.

[655321]

Double. For takeout.

[jillybean]

Jlall, on May 19 2008, 05:22 AM, said:

IMO it is a MUST to X with this type of hand.

Why X and not 4nt showing 2 places to play?

[pclayton]

Double. Even though its a 5-5, it's a defensive 5-5. Move my ♣A to ♦'s and I 4N.

[jillybean]

Thanks for the helpful replies, here's the full hand.

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 1♠    Pass  4♠    4NT
 Pass  5♦    Pass  Pass
 Dbl   Pass  Pass  Pass
 

[mikeh]

Jlall, on May 19 2008, 09:22 AM, said:

jillybean2, on May 19 2008, 09:16 AM, said:

Jlall, on May 19 2008, 05:22 AM, said:

IMO it is a MUST to X with this type of hand.

Why X and not 4nt showing 2 places to play?

because the most likely place you belong imo is 4S X, and you probably only want to declare if partner can bid over your X. If he bids 5C he will often have 6+ clubs since if he was 4-5 he would bid 4N himself (2 places to play). While it's possible you get to a 5-2 club fit I think the ability to get to 6-2+ fits in clubs, or defend 4S X is much more important. Your hand cannot really commit to 11 tricks.

I'd elaborate on this answer, by pointing out that any action risks a disaster. RHO will not usually have the hand he actually held (outside of strong club methods, where 4♠ can be an opening hand with no slam values or a preempt, it is usually played as long spades and a weak hand). But LHO may have a very good hand.

You may be on a misfit, with N being 2=3=3=5 with a weak hand, and any 5-level contract is going 800 on a good day and 1100 or worse on a bad day, when the suits break badly and you end up in the worst one.

So you need to cater to the hands on which -790 isn't a bad result! Double allows partner to pass with garbage.... note, that he should NOT takeout based on weakness, but on shape with some strength (Well, with extreme shape, he doesn't need strength). 4N will commit us to playing the hand.

This is in addition to Justin's main (and valid) point that there will be hands on which you go +200 by doubling and go minus by bidding.

You will rarely go minus by doubling on a hand where you'd go plus by bidding... so rarely that I almost wrote 'never'.

[jillybean]

Now this one, nice hands heh.

Dealer: West Vul: All Scoring: IMP

♠ K5 ♥ AKJ63 ♦ ♣ AK7432

West North East South

 4♠    Pass  Pass  ? 

[Echognome]

Your second example seems a clear 4NT (2 places to play).

[neilkaz]

Jlall, on May 20 2008, 06:21 PM, said:

Echognome, on May 20 2008, 06:10 PM, said:

Your second example seems a clear 4NT (2 places to play).

agree

As do I.

First hand is clear X from me also. People don't pass 4Sx often enough. as one reading of Cohen's LAW books will show those who bid too much !

[jillybean]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 4♠    Pass  Pass  4NT
 Pass  5♦    Pass  5♥
 Pass  Pass  Pass  


I did, I wanted to post this hand as a reminder for myself of how the
2 hands look. +1

[han]

Did you make 7?

[jillybean]

han, on May 20 2008, 08:18 PM, said:

Did you make 7?

No ♥'s broke 4-0 just +1