[jahol]

This is the board:

Scoring: IMP

---

After pass from West side, North opened with 1C and East blocked with 3H, South bid 3S and North 4S, passed all around.

West first lead was HQ, the declarer played low from dummy, East H2 and the declarer H3. Second round of H followed, East took the trick and returned diamond. The declarer played high, cashed two rounds of trumphs, eliminated diamonds (discarding one small club in his hand) and played low club from dummy for ruff and discard in the next round. Who is more responsible for 10 IMPs loss - East or West?

[hotShot]

I would not speak of blame here, because the right move could easily turn out to be a horrible mistake. East could realize that he can be endplayed with the ♣A and play that, prior to exiting in ♦.

[mikeh]

east, 100%

The H2, if discouraging, suggested a switch and it is not unreasonable for west to switch to a club, altho it might be a disaster if S has Ax or AJ in clubs. Unless playing something like Obvious Switch, a discouraging card at trick one can only say 'switch': it cannot specify the suit to which the switch should be made.

In any event, if we assume that the H2 said lead clubs, then West did err in continuing hearts, but this had NO impact on the eventual outcome. Think of it this way: assume West played a club at trick 2. East is in. What will he play? The Heart A and then a diamond (or a spade). So, when he is in with the heart Ace, he can readily place himself in the same situation by cashing the club Ace. Furthermore, his future dilemma is obvious to anyone with any real experience. The concept of a strip and endplay is maybe beyond a beginner but this hand is not a 'expert-level' problem.

[jdonn]

What did west possibly do wrong? Is it being suggested he should switch to a club at trick 2 in case partner forgets to at trick 3? Even if west switches at all, a diamond is far more likely than a club. Give south KQxxxxx xx Qx AJ and east - ATxxxxx Kxxx Tx for example. Switching to a club at trick 2 is just impossible without being completely double dummy.

[jahol]

I my opinion, heart played in the first round should OBLIGATORY signal the switch. Why? Because HQ may be easily singleton and it is necessary to tell partner what to do in such case. Smallest H should call for club switch, relatively high card in H for diamond, medium card just can show no particular preference. After the 3H call, it is clear that East had been equipped with enough small cards to signal quite unambiguously.

Yes, East (that was me) should be aware of throw-in. But it is not that clear either, I think, because the declarer may have easily Qx(x)--K(J)x(x) in the minor suits... in such case, cashing CA would have had fatal consequences whereas playing diamond would have led directly to one down....

[jdonn]

jahol, on May 16 2008, 05:21 PM, said:

I my opinion, heart played in the first round should OBLIGATORY signal the switch. Why? Because HQ may be easily singleton and it is necessary to tell partner what to do in such case. Smallest H should call for club switch, relatively high card in H for diamond, medium card just can show no particular preference. After the 3H call, it is clear that East had been equipped with enough small cards to signal quite unambiguously.

Yes, East (that was me) should be aware of throw-in. But it is not that clear either, I think, because the declarer may have easily Qx(x)--K(J)x(x) in the minor suits... in such case, cashing CA would have had fatal consequences whereas playing diamond would have led directly to one down....

Don't all your reasons for not cashing the club ace also apply as far as wanting partner to play a club at trick 2? Are you saying partner should know to play a club because he has the king, but he should completely ignore your signal if he doesn't have the king? If he had Qxxxx he would play one anyway, expecting you to ruff it.

You should be told, people around here don't take kindly to posting a problem, seeing a few answers that disagree with yours, then immediately jumping in to defend your action. It makes it seem like you posted just to prove that you were right instead of to truly find the best answer. If your play really was reasonable, you can trust people will come to your defense on their own.

[jahol]

No... I know the rules here... (although I made many times less contributions to this forum than you, my friend)... I just tried to make one more point to the discussion... just because there is midnight here and I am going to bed... and I do not know the time, I will be able to continue... Is it necessary to be that offensive?...Okay, my English is also not the best ... I better apologize in advance for it... :-)

[kenrexford]

Spoiler

The more certain East is that West should switch to a club (not saying that West should switch to a club, just assessing East's assumptions), the more likely it is that West has the club King.

For East, therefore, you missed one huge aspect of partnership defense. If you think that you have screamed for lead X, and partner does Y, partner has a card in X suit. It is almost as if the second heart play promised the club King.

It does not, but it does, if you follow.

Therefore, this leaves absolutely no reason to not cash the club Ace at trick 3.

Bad analysis above this...

[MarkDean]

I think it is West's fault. On the first trick, with clearly so many hearts to choose from, East played his very lowest one, suggesting a club feature.

From West's perspective, if it is a void or the ace, a club play cannot hurt: we are going to take take 2 clubs and two hearts or two hearts, a club, and a club ruff.

But, if West had diamond cards (say KTxx) but no club help, the defense needs to setup the diamonds before the club ace is knocked out.

For example, if south has

KQxxxx
xx
Qx
KJx

The defense needs to play two rounds of hearts then a diamond.

[kenrexford]

MarkDean, on May 16 2008, 06:14 PM, said:

I think it is West's fault. On the first trick, with clearly so many hearts to choose from, East played his very lowest one, suggesting a club feature.

From West's perspective, if it is a void or the ace, a club play cannot hurt: we are going to take take 2 clubs and two hearts or two hearts, a club, and a club ruff.

But, if West had diamond cards (say KTxx) but no club help, the defense needs to setup the diamonds before the club ace is knocked out.

For example, if south has

KQxxxx
xx
Qx
KJx

The defense needs to play two rounds of hearts then a diamond.

Good point.

I change my vote. I'm convinced now. West erred.

[jahol]

...so that the hand may be advanced (or even expert) level problem....

Thank you for the analysis Jlall!

[benlessard]

For me its attitude first and pref when its obvious to switch.

So low H = continue H no tolerance for switch. Middle H = clubs and high H for diamonds. Under these condition The blame goes to east.

[pclayton]

I think East defended poorly (sorry, incorrectly ) by not cashing the ♣A.

That being said, what if East had a club void? If South has something like KQxxxx, xx, x, AJxx, the only way to beat the hand is a club ruff at T2.

Gnome and I have had many discussions about this situation the last few days. The 2♥ is a pretty compelling card and to me it signifies a fast entry.