Fantoni-Nunes GCC status Sorry if this has been covered before.
#1
Posted 2008-May-14, 18:31
#2
Posted 2008-May-14, 20:58
Yes, I can use Google. I'm lazy.
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#3
Posted 2008-May-14, 21:16
1C = 15+ balanced (4333/4432/5m332), or 14+ value 5+C/444-1red, F1
1D = 14+ value 5+D or 444-1black, F1
1H = 14+ value 5+H (12+ if 4S), F1
1S = 14+ value 5+S (12+ if 4+H), F1
1N = 12-14, any 5422 ok except both M's, 6m ok, all 4441's (!)
2C = 10-13 value, 5C-4other unbalanced, or 6+C (5C-5S has opened 2C before)
2D = 10-13 value, 5D-4M/4+m unbalanced, or 6+D
2M = 10-13 value, 5M-4+m unbalanced, or 6+M
2N = 21-22 bal
3y/4y = pree
3N = was solid 7+crd minor nothing on side
From Dan's page.
#4
Posted 2008-May-15, 00:39
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Allowed by 1.
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I don't think this allowed in conjunction with above because of the F1 nature. It may be you can use both ♣ and ♦ as forcing 1 strong bids in GCC, but the wording suggests you can only use one of them like this.
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1S = 14+ value 5+S (12+ if 4+H), F1
I don't think this is allowed to be F1. And if it is and the responses are at all artificial and/or conventional then the responses aren't allowed unless the opening bid guarantees 15+.
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I wish this were allowed, but I think it isn't. There is ambiguous language about how "A notrump opening ... is natural if not unbalanced (generally, no singleton or void and only one or two doubletons)." So 6322 is ok but 6331 and 4441 is not ok.
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2D = 10-13 value, 5D-4M/4+m unbalanced, or 6+D
2M = 10-13 value, 5M-4+m unbalanced, or 6+M
These are all allowed I think. For weak 2s you can't be 5M/4m only but can be 5M/4m OR 6M in GCC and the fact that these are 10+ probably gives you more flexibility too.
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Allowed as long as 4441 isn't bal.
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3N = was solid 7+crd minor nothing on side
Allowed.
From Dan's page.
#5
Posted 2008-May-15, 01:27
The responses to 1♣ may not be allowed, the rest is similar to 2/1 GF so obviously allowed.
Alternative responses (www.geocities.com/gerben47/bridge/mosca.html) ARE allowed:
1♣ - ?
1♦ = 0 - 5 or inv. without 4M
1M = nat. 6+, can have longer m
1N = 6 - 8
2m = Natural GF
2♥ = 5♠ 4♥
2♠ (okay this one is probably not allowed but possible to adjust this): 6 - 8, 5-4 m
2N = Nat. GF
3m = 6 - 8, 6-card
#6
Posted 2008-May-15, 01:31
#7
Posted 2008-May-15, 01:34
Gerben42, on May 15 2008, 08:27 AM, said:
Yes, but the ACBL can prevent any conventional continuations if they want (and under the new laws they can prevent them anyway).
When F-N's system first became better known I noticed that the EBU regulations didn't appear to permit the forcing natural 1-level openings and we swiftly changed the wording on the basis that they can hardly be more difficult to defend against than a non-forcing natural 1-level opening.
#8
Posted 2008-May-15, 02:50
Gerben42, on May 14 2008, 11:27 PM, said:
If they were NF they'd all be allowed. Because they are F1 I'm not so sure they stay natural and non-conventional. But I'm not an expert. Consult with ACBL officials until you get the ruling you like.
#9
Posted 2008-May-15, 04:22
#10
Posted 2008-May-15, 05:20
The 2-bids in practice are fine, just precision 2C style for all 4 suits. A 2C precision opening (5C + 4other or 6+C) is not allowed in GCC explicitly but interpreted as coming under the umbrella.
Harry Falk, a major ACBL director, allowed me to play the forcing 1-level openings with standard type responses in a GCC event, and we packaged the 4441's into the 2m openings since that was clearly a no-no. In fact, I seem to recall earlier incarnations of F-N used 2m for the 4441's.
Thanks,
Dan
#11
Posted 2008-May-15, 22:35
DrTodd13, on May 14 2008, 10:16 PM, said:
Some people might take issue with opening all the 4441's in the 12-14 1NT (about 10% of your 1NT openers will have a singleton).
The continuations from the original F-N system are often artificial and weak (usually first step in response to a forcing opening), and unless this happens to be a 1♦ or 1NT response, these won't be GCC.
#12
Posted 2008-May-16, 01:13
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If you lower the standard for the 1-level to rule-of-22 as in my version, you can just pass the 4441 hands and nothing bad will happen to you other than getting some weird looks when this hand becomes dummy... If desired I can publish a GCC-version of my F-N system.
#13
Posted 2008-May-16, 02:21
#14
Posted 2008-May-26, 05:29
http://www.geocities...fantunesgcc.pdf
I think that'll work, although I'm not really happy with the GCC straight-jacket. Since I've updated the "simple" version, feel free to take conventions from the full version like Gazilli and Condensed Transfers. If you want to make a "full" GCC version, that's fine as long as you send it to me when you're done I can provide the .tex-file for the simple version if needed.
4441 hands are a problem and are usually passed up to 13 HCP. If this is a problem, you might get away with opening 1♦ and passing any weak response, and going down if partner forces to game... I heard opening 1NT and say you used "judgement" is not a legal practice?
#15
Posted 2008-May-26, 08:13
Gerben42, on May 26 2008, 06:29 AM, said:
That is incorrect. Mostly. The ACBLScore Tech Files say
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Repeated openings with a singleton by any player will tend to create this implicit and illegal agreement with his partner, and he may be proscribed from the practice if his reputation precedes him. Also forbidden is any set of agreements which force opening NT without a balanced hand, as mentioned in (1) above.
The reference is to a previous comment, not repeated here, which basically says that if your other agreements make it necessary to open a purportedly natural 1NT with an unbalanced hand, the entire set of agreements is illegal.
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#16
Posted 2008-May-27, 07:46
If I were asked/hassled about this 4441 issue, I'd add a scattered 10 HCP to the hand and ask some experts (or the critic) if they'd bid 2N or 2♣...2N with it. If that's the expert treatment, it must be ok right?
#17
Posted 2008-May-27, 12:09
Also I think that not much is "lost" when you just pass these hands. Maybe it would be good if a lot of people try the "pass" on such hands and see how they fare.
#19
Posted 2008-May-28, 04:38
samuelgl, on May 28 2008, 04:32 AM, said:
http://web2.acbl.org/documentlibrary/units...vChart12_03.pdf is a link to the GCC... note, you will need adobe reader to read this.
#20
Posted 2008-May-28, 07:53
inquiry, on May 28 2008, 05:38 AM, said:
samuelgl, on May 28 2008, 04:32 AM, said:
http://web2.acbl.org/documentlibrary/units...vChart12_03.pdf is a link to the GCC... note, you will need adobe reader to read this.
HTML: http://www.d21acbl.com/References/Conventi...Conventions.htm