[boris3161]

As acol players, my partner and I are currently learning/revising SAYC. I dealt myself the following hand and opened 1♥:

Scoring: IMP

---

My partner responded with 1♠. What should my rebid be?
I think it should be 2♦ but is this forcing and why?

Thanks

Boris

[PedroG]

Hi,

Well one solution to your problem was to originally open 1NT, if you didn't because too strong and considerd this a 18HCP (due to the 5 card suit) then rebid 2NT...

Pedro

[P_Marlowe]

2D, and 2D is non forcing.

Partner is allowed to pass with 6-9HCP and 4 to 5 diamonds,
and he will, if he happens to hold only 1 heart.

The alternative would be 2NT, a slight over bid, it would
show 18-19 HCP.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[matmat]

this boils down to your agreements and partnership style/preferences.

you have three sensible calls available to you.
2D
2S
2NT

in no particular order:
2D nominally shows 4 diamonds, but in situations like this it is an acceptable lie, provided p knows to show false preference to your heart suit.

2S also nominally shows 4 cards in the suit, but you make up for the lack of the fourth trump by the HCP,

2NT is a slight overbid. it promisses 18-19hc. i don't think that the heart suit texture is worth an original upgrade.

my personal choice would be to open this hand 1NT to begin with, but if your partnership feels strongly about not concealing 5 card majors this way, then you have to figure out which of the above distortions suits you best. If i were forced to take a call in your situation i'd probably go with 2S

[helene_t]

You should have opened this hand with 1NT. Having failed to do that, your rebid is 2♦, and the auction continues as if you were playing Acol. 2♦ shows some 11-17(18) points, just like in Acol.

Some dislike opening 1NT with a 5-card major, but even so I think this particular hand must be opened 1NT. You can decide not to open NT if:
- You have a 3-card clubs. Rebidding 2♣ on a 3-card is easier to swallow than 2♦ on a 3-card.
- You have a doubleton in the other major, so you don't want p to take your 1NT out to that major, playing a 5-2 fit while you also had a 5-3 fit.
- You have a modest 15 points that could pass a 1NT response, or raise a 1♠ response to 2♠.

This hand has non of the above features so it really should be opened 1NT. Unless you consider it too strong for that, in which case your rebid is 2NT.

[Codo]

The forum posters are keen of opening 1 NT with any 5332 hand and 15-17 HCPs. You may adopt this stlye, then you must open 1 NT.

But there is no need to do so. You have 17 HCPS and values anywhere, you can now bid 2 NT easily.

I don`t know if this sequence is in the sayc book, but I play:

1 ♥ 1 ♠ 1 NT : 12-15
     2 NT: 16-18
     3 NT 19-20

In this case you don`t need to lie with a 3 card minor and the worst thing is playing 2 NT with 16 opposite 6.

[helene_t]

The 2NT rebid shows 18-19 points.

[PedroG]

helene_t, on May 14 2008, 04:56 AM, said:

The 2NT rebid shows 18-19 points.

Helen,

I've seen some good player's promote their balanced 14 with a 5card to 15 to open 1NT any recomendation not to do that also in the jump rebid of NT?

TY
Pedro

[helene_t]

PedroG, on May 14 2008, 11:21 AM, said:

helene_t, on May 14 2008, 04:56 AM, said:

The 2NT rebid shows 18-19 points.

Helen,

I've seen some good player's promote their balanced 14 with a 5card to 15 to open 1NT any recomendation not to do that also in the jump rebid of NT?

TY
Pedro

That is a matter of judgment. If you think a 5332 is worth one point more than a 4432, then your 2NT rebid showing 18-19 "judgement points" become effectively 17-18 "literal points", and you would open 2NT with 20-22 "judgment points" which would be 19-21 "literal points".

Anyway, my point is that if you don't open 1NT while having a hand with the strength of a 1NT opening, you cannot describe the hand as balanced since by failing to open 1NT you denied a balanced hand with the appropriate strength. So if you consider this hand to have the strength of a 1NT opening, you must either open 1NT, or describe it as a spades/diamonds two-suiter.

[matmat]

PedroG, on May 14 2008, 05:21 AM, said:

helene_t, on May 14 2008, 04:56 AM, said:

The 2NT rebid shows 18-19 points.

Helen,

I've seen some good player's promote their balanced 14 with a 5card to 15 to open 1NT any recomendation not to do that also in the jump rebid of NT?

TY
Pedro

they usually have a suit that looks like a source of tricks
this one doesn't.

[PedroG]

Forum discussion

AKT97 AQx xx KJ7

vs

QJ4 KQ975 KQT A5

Well just me being curious
Pedro

[helene_t]

I think it's reasonable to open the spades hand to 18 points while not upgrading the hearts hand. It is a better hand.

Of course if you upgrade the hearts hand to 18 points, 1♥ is obvious.

Besides, it is more attractive to open 1NT with hearts than with spades. First, if you open 1♥ you have a rebid problem if partner responds 1♠. With spades you only have a rebid problem if he bids 1NT. 2nd, with hearts you may like to open 1NT to preempt opps from bidding 1♠.

FWIW I voted 1♠ in the spades poll. I think the hand should be described as an 18-point.

[hotShot]

PedroG, on May 14 2008, 12:51 PM, said:

AKT97 AQx xx KJ7

vs

QJ4 KQ975 KQT A5

AKT97 AQx xx KJ7
You have the chance to make 4♠ tricks capturing one missing honor, 1-2♥ (depending on finesse/ lead) and 0-2 ♦ (depending on finesse/lead).
This is a total of 5-8 tricks.

QJ4 KQ975 KQT A5
You can get 0-1♠ tricks (assume AKT behind you), 0-2♦ (opps will capture one of KQ) and 1♣. The ♥ suit can lose to AJT8 so you are more likely to get 3 tricks and you might have to exit 2 times before the suit is developed, this means you might need entries to get to the high ♥. So here the total is 2-7 tricks. So the other hand is stronger.

[Codo]

helene_t, on May 14 2008, 06:56 PM, said:

The 2NT rebid shows 18-19 points.

It does if you define it as 18-19.

It is defined as 18-19 after 1 minor-1 any 2 NT.

But is it defined this way after 1 HEart -1 Spade 2 NT too?

If it is, you need to rebid 2 Diamond after you choose to open 1 Heart. If it isn`t I still prefer 2 NT as 16-18 after a 1 M opening.

[jtfanclub]

In SAYC, I'd bid 3NT. Maybe I can rustle up a spade lead.

But since everybody these days responds 1♠ with less than 6 hcp (naughty, naughty people), I suppose I have to settle for a nonforcing 2NT.

IMHO, when first learning SAYC, a 1♠ response to 1♥ should promise 6 hcp, and 3NT here should show a minimum game force.

http://web2.acbl.org/documentlibrary/play/...gle%20pages.pdf

[skjaeran]

This is an easy 2NT rebid, showing your 18-19NT. This hand is a good 18 to me.