[1eyedjack]

I worry that by bidding 5♦ partner is going to assume that I don't have the ♣Ace. If despite that missing card partner is co-operating with a ♦ cue then I will assume he has a ♥ control - King at least.

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean2, on May 4 2008, 09:43 PM, said:

Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: IMP

♠ A32 ♥ 862 ♦ KQ4 ♣ KT63 ♠ KQT95 ♥ QJ74 ♦ A5 ♣ AQ

West  North East  South

 -     -     -     1♠
 Pass  2♣    Pass  2♥
 Pass  4♠    Pass  5♦
 Dbl   RDbl  Pass  5♠
 Pass  Pass  Pass  

Here's the full hand.
<snip>

The North hand is only worth a limit raise,
i.e. North did overbid by a fair degree.
South never showed add. strength.
Just ask yourself, how does your min.
opening bids look like, remember the hand,
you said, which was a clear opener?
=> After the 4S bid by North I would ask for
KC and would have bid the slam.
If North had voiced a complain, I would have
looked for a beginner class and bought him
the lesson.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jtfanclub]

A hand with a minimum balanced GF responds 2♣ and gets into trouble later on. Haven't we already had this discussion?

(Add some jacks to North if you think it's not a minimum balanced GF).

[han]

To Ron and JT, as far as I know Jillybean does not play 2/1 GF nor 1NT forcing so that's all moot.

[jdonn]

jtfanclub, on May 5 2008, 04:51 PM, said:

A hand with a minimum balanced GF responds 2♣ and gets into trouble later on.

Seems to me the trouble is caused by having no agreements, including about style.

[jillybean]

han, on May 5 2008, 03:18 PM, said:

To Ron and JT, as far as I know Jillybean does not play 2/1 GF nor 1NT forcing so that's all moot.

Thats true, I am looking at using forcing 1nt.

[jillybean]

P_Marlowe, on May 5 2008, 05:35 AM, said:

[The North hand is only worth a limit raise,
i.e. North did overbid by a fair degree.
South never showed add. strength.
Just ask yourself, how does your min.
opening bids look like, remember the hand,
you said, which was a clear opener?
=> After the 4S bid by North I would ask for
KC and would have bid the slam.
If North had voiced a complain, I would have
looked for a beginner class and bought him
the lesson.

With kind regards
Marlowe

Hi Marlow,
Im not sure how I could have shown extra strength other than the cue over game.
This is a monster compared to my other 'clear opening', on that hand I would have rebid 2♠.

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean2, on May 5 2008, 06:25 PM, said:

P_Marlowe, on May 5 2008, 05:35 AM, said:

[The North hand is only worth a limit raise,
i.e. North did overbid by a fair degree.
South never showed add. strength.
Just ask yourself, how does your min.
opening bids look like, remember the hand,
you said, which was a clear opener?
=> After the 4S bid by North I would ask for
KC and would have bid the slam.
If North had voiced a complain, I would have
looked for a beginner class and bought him
the lesson.

With kind regards
Marlowe

Hi Marlow,
Im not sure how I could have shown extra strength other than the cue over game.
This is a monster compared to my other 'clear opening', on that hand I would have rebid 2♠.

Hi,

First thing first:

#1 you would have bid 2H as well, if you did not
hold the AQ in clubs?
If yes, North does not know about those two
cards, so South should move on.
If we can make game without those cards, we
should at least have a look, if we cant make 12
tricks.
I.e. I agree with a forward going move, but I
would just ask for KC and move on to slam.
... #3 should make it clear, that for me the North
hand is dead min., which may explain my forcing
to slam.

#2 A 2S rebid instead of 2H should show a 6 carder.

#2 If North thinks, the hand is worth a game force
(never mind, what I may be thinking, it is Norths
decision, he is playing), he should bid 3S.
3S creates a game forcing seqquence below 4S
and will allowsthe opener to describe his hand.

If he cant bid a forcing 3S, he should bid 3C FSF.
After a game force is established below game level,
South can show / deny additional interest about a
higher contract.
I know a lot of peoble dont like the concept of fast
arrival, and it is quite often used to wrongly justify
certain actions, but it is nevertheless one of the
most import concepts in uncontested auctions, more
worth than a lot of brilliant conventions.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jillybean]

P_Marlowe, on May 5 2008, 11:57 PM, said:

<snip>
#2 A 2S rebid instead of 2H should show a 6 carder.

It is far too late for me to be reading this but here is one statment I must reply to!

1♠:2♣
2♠ should not promise 6 cards!

Good night

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean2, on May 6 2008, 02:32 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on May 5 2008, 11:57 PM, said:

<snip>
#2 A 2S rebid instead of 2H should show a 6 carder.

It is far too late for me to be reading this but here is one statment I must reply to!

1♠:2♣
2♠ should not promise 6 cards!

Good night

... yes, as long as 2NT shows 15-17, I am
happy to agree with this.

If you play, that 2NT shows the 12-14 bal.
hand, I would say, you should make the 2NT
bid, if you happen to hold 12-14 with 5332.

Good morning (it is 10:00 CET), so I have to
go back to work.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: Please be aware, that I am not saying, that 2S in
the following sequence shows a 6 carder.

1S - 2D
2S

[benlessard]

If West is a good player then he is fishing for information...if so 5H or a direct 6S make sense.

[jtfanclub]

jdonn, on May 5 2008, 05:57 PM, said:

jtfanclub, on May 5 2008, 04:51 PM, said:

A hand with a minimum balanced GF responds 2♣ and gets into trouble later on.

Seems to me the trouble is caused by having no agreements, including about style.

Some people cheat by having a specific auction to show this (if I were Jilly, I'd propose having 2♣ followed by 3NT show this exact hand plus a jack or two). Others have a style agreement that handles this, though I'm not convinced it works all that well. Every system has some hands that it has a great deal of trouble handling. This is a problem hand for SA.

Didn't mean any more than that, sorry.

[jillybean]

Good morning

Ok, I think I am finaly beginning to understand the difference between
1♠:2♦ 2♠, 1♠:2♣ 2♠, 1♠:2m 2nt

1♠:2♦
2♠ opener can raise 2♦ with 4 so is likely to be min and 5332, 5224

1♠:2♣
2♠ opener can rebid ♦ , ♥ OR 2NT (12-14) so 2♠ should be 6 (or a great 5)

now for 1♥:2m ..