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West North East South
- - - 1♠
Pass 2♣ Pass 2♥
Pass 4♠ Pass 5♦
Dbl RDbl* Pass
*2nd control
your bid
#1
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Posted 2008-May-04, 08:44
West North East South
- - - 1♠
Pass 2♣ Pass 2♥
Pass 4♠ Pass 5♦
Dbl RDbl* Pass
*2nd control
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
#2
- Axxx Axx Axx Axx
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Posted 2008-May-04, 09:03
5♠, I don't have the ♥ control.
#3
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Posted 2008-May-04, 09:41
Re-redouble, 1st-round control. Seriously, partner probably would (should?) have bid 5H (instead of redouble) if he had a heart control. If that is right, 5S now. And if it isn't right, still 5S now.
I am having trouble visualizing partner's hand, though: isn't he supposed to have good clubs and good spades to bid 2C, then 4S?
I am having trouble visualizing partner's hand, though: isn't he supposed to have good clubs and good spades to bid 2C, then 4S?
#4
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Posted 2008-May-04, 10:01
6♠, what in the world can partner have without two of AK of hearts A of spades?
I would have bid keycard last round even without hearts controlled. Partner almost surely has them controlled, and even if he doesn't and we get to slam they are unlikely to lead a heart (never from just the K for example) and we would surely make based on club tricks. I'd rather not help them lead.
I would have bid keycard last round even without hearts controlled. Partner almost surely has them controlled, and even if he doesn't and we get to slam they are unlikely to lead a heart (never from just the K for example) and we would surely make based on club tricks. I'd rather not help them lead.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#5
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Posted 2008-May-04, 10:26
How about AJx xx Kx KJTxxx?
#6
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Posted 2008-May-04, 10:29
Redouble should be first round control, pass 2nd round control?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
#7
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Posted 2008-May-04, 10:52
jillybean2, on May 4 2008, 09:29 AM, said:
Redouble should be first round control, pass 2nd round control?
Redouble should be first round control, or pass and allow the cuebidder to clarify his bid as first or second round control (by either redouble or bidding).
#8
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Posted 2008-May-04, 11:00
TimG, on May 4 2008, 11:26 AM, said:
How about AJx xx Kx KJTxxx?
I don't know about you, but if he has that hand I want to be in slam after the auction I would have, I expect it to make the vast majority of the time opening leader doesn't have AK of hearts.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#9
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Posted 2008-May-04, 11:36
jdonn, on May 4 2008, 12:00 PM, said:
TimG, on May 4 2008, 11:26 AM, said:
How about AJx xx Kx KJTxxx?
I don't know about you, but if he has that hand I want to be in slam after the auction I would have, I expect it to make the vast majority of the time opening leader doesn't have AK of hearts.
I don't know, if you're on lead against your auction (expecting that the opponents are off one keycard) with xx Kxx xxxxx xxx, what do you lead?
It seems to me that if we don't take the first two tricks, they likely have 12 tricks. 11 black suit tricks plus a red suit ace wouldn't be a surprise. 10 black suit tricks plus the AK of diamonds, or 10 black suit tricks plus ♥A plus a forced trick from ♦KQ, wouldn't be a surprise, either.
I think I'd lead a heart.
I'd be less likely to get it right holding xx Axx Qxxxx xxx, but even then, not taking the first two tricks is probably a disaster, so I might get it right and lead a heart.
Perhaps I am giving too much credit to the opponents' auction and am wrong to assume their suits are running.
#10
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Posted 2008-May-04, 13:53
I agree with TimG, and missing AK hearts makes 6S look too risky. I would lead a heart regardless. On this bidding sequence I think it depends on the meaning of your cue bids - does the redouble deny a heart control?
If it denies an Ace but may have the King then I bid ace asking, as Jxx Kx KQ KJxxxx is a possibility - missing 2 aces. That 4♠ bid says "minimum" in my book. I don't think the bid shows good spades.
If it denies both, I bid 5♠.
If it says nothing about hearts, I ace ask.
In response to the ace ask, if he has 2 then I bid 6♠ but on 0 or 1 I sign off in 5♠.
If it denies an Ace but may have the King then I bid ace asking, as Jxx Kx KQ KJxxxx is a possibility - missing 2 aces. That 4♠ bid says "minimum" in my book. I don't think the bid shows good spades.
If it denies both, I bid 5♠.
If it says nothing about hearts, I ace ask.
In response to the ace ask, if he has 2 then I bid 6♠ but on 0 or 1 I sign off in 5♠.
#11
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Posted 2008-May-04, 16:49
TimG, on May 4 2008, 12:36 PM, said:
jdonn, on May 4 2008, 12:00 PM, said:
TimG, on May 4 2008, 11:26 AM, said:
How about AJx xx Kx KJTxxx?
I don't know about you, but if he has that hand I want to be in slam after the auction I would have, I expect it to make the vast majority of the time opening leader doesn't have AK of hearts.
I don't know, if you're on lead against your auction (expecting that the opponents are off one keycard) with xx Kxx xxxxx xxx, what do you lead?
It seems to me that if we don't take the first two tricks, they likely have 12 tricks. 11 black suit tricks plus a red suit ace wouldn't be a surprise. 10 black suit tricks plus the AK of diamonds, or 10 black suit tricks plus ♥A plus a forced trick from ♦KQ, wouldn't be a surprise, either.
I think I'd lead a heart.
I'd be less likely to get it right holding xx Axx Qxxxx xxx, but even then, not taking the first two tricks is probably a disaster, so I might get it right and lead a heart.
Perhaps I am giving too much credit to the opponents' auction and am wrong to assume their suits are running.
That is quite a double of 5♦.
Was it suggesting a sacrifice by the hand on lead against spades?
Perhaps you mean to provide West with a hand like xx Kxx KQJT9 xxx. In which case the double of 5♦ is sort of a knee-jerk reaction to the cue bid. In that case, it is certainly not clear to lead a heart.
#12 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2008-May-04, 17:04
I would definitely bid 6S for the reason jdonn said: What do you think partner has? He must have hearts controlled, and even if he has the rare hand where he doesnt it's still a pretty good slam. FWIW I would have just bid keycard over the 4S bid (cue mikeh, no pun intended!)
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Posted 2008-May-04, 18:08
ArtK78, on May 4 2008, 05:49 PM, said:
That is quite a double of 5♦.
Was it suggesting a sacrifice by the hand on lead against spades?
Was it suggesting a sacrifice by the hand on lead against spades?
I was talking about, and giving examples for, the auction suggested by jdonn which did not involve any cue-bidding or doubles of cue-bids. I even quoted jdonn's "I want to be in slam after the auction I would have" so it would be clear which auction was under discussion.
#14
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Posted 2008-May-04, 18:58
jillybean2, on May 4 2008, 09:44 AM, said:
West North East South
- - - 1♠
Pass 2♣ Pass 2♥
Pass 4♠ Pass 5♦
Dbl RDbl* Pass
*2nd control
[/font]
- - - 1♠
Pass 2♣ Pass 2♥
Pass 4♠ Pass 5♦
Dbl RDbl* Pass
*2nd control
[/font]
the problem i see with this is really the 4S bid
That seems to be telling me, yeahyeah we have game, but me gots nothing to cuebid.
Now if i bid 3S i am begging the guy to cue his ace of clubs and then i have cheap chance at 4h.
Free, on 2011-May-10, 03:57, said:
Babalu just wanted a shoulder to cry on, is that too much to ask for?
#15
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Posted 2008-May-04, 20:43
Scoring: IMP
West North East South
- - - 1♠
Pass 2♣ Pass 2♥
Pass 4♠ Pass 5♦
Dbl RDbl Pass 5♠
Pass Pass Pass
Here's the full hand.
Spoiler
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
#16
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Posted 2008-May-04, 20:54
Ok I really dislike the 4S bid. For me 4S shows a picture jump - good Cs, very likely 4S or 3 really good ones, and no control in the red suits - typically a 4225 or perhaps a 3226 shape.
In your sequence 5D is fine, but I really dislike the xx, which should show 1st round control, (if you are bidding 1st and 2nd round cues).
You landed in an ok spot, with some danger of a H ruff, but I suspect this was more luck than good management.
In your sequence 5D is fine, but I really dislike the xx, which should show 1st round control, (if you are bidding 1st and 2nd round cues).
You landed in an ok spot, with some danger of a H ruff, but I suspect this was more luck than good management.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#17 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2008-May-04, 21:41
jillybean2, on May 4 2008, 09:43 PM, said:
Scoring: IMP
West North East South
- - - 1♠
Pass 2♣ Pass 2♥
Pass 4♠ Pass 5♦
Dbl RDbl Pass 5♠
Pass Pass Pass
Here's the full hand.
Spoiler
If partner had the CJ I think this would be a perfect example of a hand that you want to be in 6S rather than 5S in. If they lead hearts they will often get a ruff, if they don't you will usually make 6. Playing in 5 is only right if they're leading hearts and they're 3-3 or AK tight.
#18
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Posted 2008-May-04, 23:41
As an aside here. Doesn't anyone play picture bids any more? There have been very few comment made on the (imo poor) 4S bid.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#19 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2008-May-04, 23:56
The_Hog, on May 5 2008, 12:41 AM, said:
As an aside here. Doesn't anyone play picture bids any more? There have been very few comment made on the (imo poor) 4S bid.
Assuming you're not playing 2/1, and you're not playing with any agreements I would not assume partner would take either 2S or 3S as forcing over 2H, so I would bid 4S if I had a hand that I wanted to force to game. Yes I agree that bidding this way is almost unplayable, but I suspect it's how a majority of pickup partnerships play.
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Posted 2008-May-05, 04:25
The_Hog, on May 5 2008, 05:41 AM, said:
As an aside here. Doesn't anyone play picture bids any more?
I do. All the time.