[jillybean]

(P) 1♦ (P) 1♥
(P) 1♠ (2♣) X

I think it is take out, ♥ bidder has not limited her hand

[pclayton]

I play it as card showing, not penalty or takeout.

Weird auction by the way. I see people that make calls like this and I have no idea what they mean.

[jdonn]

Yes card showing. Meaning no known fit yet, at least game invitational values, inability (or lack of desire) to bid notrump.

[Gerben42]

The famous "do something intelligent" double. It shows "whatever I might currently have".

So in principle take out because partner's standard action is not to Pass.

[jillybean]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     Pass  1♦
 Pass  1♥    Pass  1♠
 2♣    Dbl   Pass  Pass
 Pass  

Here's the hand - how would you bid as north?

[BillHiggin]

Got stuff, no clear action - do something intelligent (which might include pass)

[pclayton]

Gerben42, on Apr 28 2008, 09:23 AM, said:

The famous "do something intelligent" double. It shows "whatever I might currently have".

So in principle take out because partner's standard action is not to Pass.

One of my partners calls this a "Spike Lee" double (Do the Right Thing).

[pclayton]

jillybean2, on Apr 28 2008, 09:36 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

- - Pass 1♦
Pass 1♥ Pass 1♠
2♣ Dbl Pass Pass
Pass

Here's the hand - how would you bid as north?

Leaving in the double is not 'intelligent'. I'd bid 2♦ and 3N over the pending 3♣.

[cherdano]

pclayton, on Apr 28 2008, 11:19 AM, said:

I play it as card showing, not penalty or takeout.

Weird auction by the way. I see people that make calls like this and I have no idea what they mean.

It shows clubs and diamonds, but in real life the overcaller has a 10 count with a suit too bad to overcall the first time...

[jillybean]

pclayton, on Apr 28 2008, 10:19 AM, said:

Weird auction by the way. I see people that make calls like this and I have no idea what they mean.

Which call(s) dont you understand?

nb. Ive probably used the wrong term by calling this 'take out' Not knowing the correct names for all the doubles I tend to use this as a general term for anything other than penalty.

In our discussion after the hand,
pard, 2♣x is absolutely penalty....bid 3♣....or something else
me: 3♣ would invite 3nt with a ♣ stopper
your x on that hand shows clubs...at least 4 good ones
dear, it is always penalty

After "dear" I knew it was the end of the conversation

[jtfanclub]

pclayton, on Apr 28 2008, 12:43 PM, said:

Leaving in the double is not 'intelligent'. I'd bid 2♦ and 3N over the pending 3♣.

I agree, of course. I don't think North has a DSIP double, either.

My question is, how much would you change North (if any) to make it a proper X, and how much would you change South to leave it in?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

this is classic penalty double, but optional,
i.e. card showing is certainly more useful.

The double is certainly ok, and I dont mind
passing, the only thing which speaks against
passing is the vulnerability.

But of course North sees the vulnerability as
well and if he does not want South passing
could have bid 3NT.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jdonn]

North's double is not right IMO with diamond support, north could cuebid instead. Of course south should not pass the double either with an easy 2♦ bid.

[Vilgan]

I'd take it as card showing with a willingness to defend. As was mentioned.. north should probably just cue bid. Odds are 3 NT is the place to play the hand, however if south has Qxx in clubs it needs to be played from that side.

If cue bid might lead to confusion.. maybe just apply the Bob Hamman rule and bid 3 NT. I do (however) have some sympathy for south taking the X as penalty. I don't think it should be, but its a possible mistake (another reason north shouldn't double unless they are 100% sure south will understand).

[mikeh]

pclayton, on Apr 28 2008, 12:43 PM, said:

jillybean2, on Apr 28 2008, 09:36 AM, said:

Dealer: East Vul: NS Scoring: IMP

♠ K43 ♥ AJ96 ♦ Q842 ♣ A2 ♠ QT97 ♥ 52 ♦ AKJ93 ♣ K4

West  North East  South

-    -    Pass  1♦
Pass  1♥    Pass  1♠
2♣    Dbl  Pass  Pass
Pass 

Here's the hand - how would you bid as north?

Leaving in the double is not 'intelligent'. I'd bid 2♦ and 3N over the pending 3♣.

agreed. I would add that I think that the typical holding for the double is Hxx... opener should be thinking about leaving it in with Hxx herself.. the double, while not penalty, will be left in quite often (and should be... if only to teach the opps that this kind of delayed bidding is idiotic).

As it is, there is no way that I make a double with the responding hand.. I have far too many diamonds and not enough clubs. I'd like to bid a forcing 3♦, but I don't have that club in my bag, so I'd bid 3♣ to establish the gf. Fortunately, this being a forum, I don't have to post how I think the auction will continue, but I think we'll reach 3N

[Echognome]

I think most books will list this double as penalty under the rule "3 suits have been bid naturally." From my understanding of these posts, most people here would play it as an action/values/cooperative/spike lee/adjective/monkey/whatever double.

Has there been a departure from standard? Say I'm sitting there with my 4♥ and 5♣, are we going to expect partner to reopen having described his hand?

[han]

Echognome, on Apr 28 2008, 07:16 PM, said:

Has there been a departure from standard?

Love this comment.

Also think most books have been written in the past. Still, "Doubles, the Scanian way" probably doesn't give this as a penalty double. Don't know how Mike Lawrence treats this in "doubles". Can't think of any other modern books on doubles that might talk about this situation.

[the hog]

I play it as penalty. Opener has shown long Ds and 4S, so based on that known shape I whack them. I would not double on this hand btw.

[kenrexford]

Well, one thing is for sure. Bidding 2♣ late like this usually means a dumb bid that deserves to be sawn off.

With the actual hand, 3♣ comes to mind.

You don't see this auction, though, very often.