[neilkaz]

kenrexford, on Apr 28 2008, 09:22 PM, said:

Well, one thing is for sure. Bidding 2♣ late like this usually means a dumb bid that deserves to be sawn off.

With the actual hand, 3♣ comes to mind.

You don't see this auction, though, very often.

So the 2♣ overcaller didn't overcall the first time and now is just sticking an an "OBARish" bid in the only unbid suit, hoping to catch PD with enough ♣ and stuff to be a nuisance at the 3 level, incase we stop at the two level.

This is best played as penalty IMHO, or certainly penalty oriented, when playing with "average" players who make silly calls like passing and 2♣.

For me, if thinking about 2♣, I'll bid it the first time almost certainly since I'll overcall 1♦ with 2♣ with some real minimums as it can make life difficult for opener's PD at times.

On this hand, rather than confuse PD with a possibly ambiguous double and noting the vul and the fact that we should be clear fav's to make game, I cue bid 3♣ hoping PD has something he thinks stops ♣ afterwhich with my helping ace, I can't imagine getting hurt in that suit and PD will be trying for OT's in 3NT. If PD has no stop then I have to decide whether to try for 4♠, 5♦ or just bid 3NT anyhow.

[whereagles]

pclayton, on Apr 28 2008, 05:19 PM, said:

Weird auction by the way. I see people that make calls like this and I have no idea what they mean.

I've had that happening around here over and over again and overcaller usually has balancing values and a broken suit. The annoying thing is overcaller always seems to find AKxx in front...

Anyway, dbl = good hand, no clear direction. E.g. a TAKE OUT dbl

[FrancesHinden]

I just play this as penalty.

To me, it's nothing to do with whether the doubler is limited or not, it's more to do with whether doubler's partner is limited or not (that's why after partner pre-empts, doubles are penalty).

We have a simple rule which is once one member of a partnership has made two descriptive bids (e.g. opening and a rebid) doubles are now for penalty.

This is a prime auction to get big penalties in, by the way.

[Apollo81]

Jlall, on Apr 28 2008, 08:38 PM, said:

I would think this is a penalty double indicating that they made a stupid bid and I not-so-surprisingly have clubs. Not willing to give up on a penalty X when partner is rarely reopening X and where I often have a penalty X. There will be some awkward hands for me because of this, but I still think penalty is more useful.

agree and cuebid is fine for the good hands with lack of direction

[jdonn]

Apollo81, on Apr 29 2008, 03:01 PM, said:

cuebid is fine for the good hands with lack of direction

The main problems with that are you might be less than a game force and then you are really screwed, and that you lose your penalty any time partner was passing your flexible double. It also overloads the cuebid, and uses up a lot more space. I agree partner will rarely reopen when you do have a penalty double, but I just think this goes under those cases where by playing a more flexible treatment you get lots of penalties anyway, and when you want to penalize it has to be acceptable to take an undoubled penalty.

I fear this is an auction many exploit (unknowingly) as fast double = penalty, slow double = balanced.