[jdonn]

awm, on Apr 12 2008, 08:05 PM, said:

Certainly I agree that there is some risk inherent in showing a two-suiter when you have a two-card discrepancy between the suits.

But surely this is better than just unilaterally bidding your shorter suit?

No. Not when

- The shorter suit can be played in game on a lower level. Meaning both of, a lower level than the other suit can be played in game, and a lower level than you will be playing the shorter suit if you play in it.
- The times that bidding the shorter suit was most wrong (when we get doubled) we can escape to the longer suit.
- The 'inherent risk' of showing two suits when there is a two card discrepancy also includes the inherent risk of not getting to show EITHER suit if LHO raises his partner.

[awm]

My experience has been that this idea of bidding a suit and then running if they double you works a lot less often than you seem to think. In fact I'd say almost never. It seems quite frequent that opponents don't double and you just go down in the wrong contract, or that they double and you run, and partner even takes you back to the first doubled suit with 3-1 in your suits, or that they double and you run and the fact that you showed the first suit makes it easier for them to double the second.

What do you think 4♥-4NT-5♥-P-P-5♠ shows? How about "spades and a minor"? How good do you think partner's chances of guessing your minor will be given your 7-1 length discrepancy? And what if the auction goes 4♥-4♠-5♥ and partner decides to raise on honor doubleton (after all don't you usually have a six-card suit for this bidding)? Are you running to 6♦ when opponents double after partner raised?

[655321]

5♦ for me.

I once held a similar hand (KJxxx x KQJ9xx x) and decided to overcall the 4♥ opening with 4♠ and see what happened. LHO thought for a long time, and doubled reluctantly.
OK, perhaps the double was based on points and not on trump tricks, so I didn't run....

-1700 later, I learnt my lesson. LHO wasn't coffeehousing, he genuinely didn't think double was clear (something like Axxx x Axxx Qxxx with no pips) - in fact another table scored -600 the hard way when 4♠ was not doubled. Diamonds made 9 tricks that time, partner was 1-2 in spades and diamonds.

[jdonn]

awm, on Apr 12 2008, 08:27 PM, said:

My experience has been that this idea of bidding a suit and then running if they double you works a lot less often than you seem to think. In fact I'd say almost never.

Almost never because it's almost never right. Except, you know, when you have a good 7 card suit to run to.

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It seems quite frequent that opponents don't double and you just go down in the wrong contract

That doesn't seem frequent at all. Sure it could be the wrong contract, but if it is I'm almost sure they will double me. After all LHO probably has real strength, and why should he ever think I'm running? You did just say running never works, so why would you fear doubling me into a better contract?

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or that they double and you run, and partner even takes you back to the first doubled suit with 3-1 in your suits, or that they double and you run and the fact that you showed the first suit makes it easier for them to double the second.

I guess if either of those two things happen I'll be in the exact same boat as you. Except, you know, with that chance of having played 4♠ thrown in.

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What do you think 4♥-4NT-5♥-P-P-5♠ shows? How about "spades and a minor"?

Well I really think 4NT shows minors, but I was rolling with your agreement. So in that case sure, spades and a minor. Of course now, since partner won't want to go to 6, you will play in the major when he has EQUAL LENGTH in your suits! And still, a level too high!

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And what if the auction goes 4♥-4♠-5♥ and partner decides to raise on honor doubleton

ahem.... WHAT?!?!?! That would give me my easiest decision of the hand. Go to the bar and make partner play it for me!

[jdonn]

655321, on Apr 12 2008, 08:49 PM, said:

5♦ for me.

I once held a similar hand (KJxxx x KQJ9xx x) and decided to overcall the 4♥ opening with 4♠ and see what happened. LHO thought for a long time, and doubled reluctantly.
OK, perhaps the double was based on points and not on trump tricks, so I didn't run....

-1700 later, I learnt my lesson. LHO wasn't coffeehousing, he genuinely didn't think double was clear (something like Axxx x Axxx Qxxx with no pips) - in fact another table scored -600 the hard way when 4♠ was not doubled. Diamonds made 9 tricks that time, partner was 1-2 in spades and diamonds.

Good point, guess you should have run. Oh yeah....

[whereagles]

hum... I'll do it like this: if LHO seems interested in the bidding, he's got points, so 5♦ will do. If he looks bored, pard should have some points, so I bid 4NT to make sure we land on spades when we got them.

[gnasher]

The opponents may double you in 4♠ when you can't make either contract, but it would be very optimistic to hope that anyone will double you in a non-making 4♠ when 5♦ is making. Why would they? This is hardly an unusual situation, so if they're looking at spade length and strength they'll know that it's quite likely that you're two-suited.

[hatter18]

Why not bid 5H as Micheals showing spades and a minor ?

[Winstonm]

5D - two places to play (i.e., 5D or 6D).

[CSGibson]

helene_t, on Apr 12 2008, 11:59 AM, said:

Yes, 5♦ and 5♠ over LHO's 5♥.

What if p doubles 5♥? Is this 100% penanlty or am I supposed to run with a hand like this one?

I think if P is doubling on that auction, it has to be because he has cards, not because he has a trump stack. Now I'm happy to have bid 5♦ first, because I'm bidding 5♠ now as a better description of this hand.

[Apollo81]

hatter18, on Apr 13 2008, 07:25 AM, said:

Why not bid 5H as Micheals showing spades and a minor ?

Because that commits us to play at least 5♠, which we might not want to do. It's not clear that it's our hand!