[kgr]

Thaanks all for the aswers. Here is the full hand and the bidding:

Scoring: IMP

1H-1S
2S-4S

---

We made 4S+2
How would you bid this hand with your parnter? With my regular partner the bidding could have gone (optimistic ):
1H-1S
3C-3H
3S-3NT
4C-4H
4NT-5S
6S
- We play 2C is forcing, 3C is splinter 12-14 or 18-19
- 3H is cue and interested in slam if 18-19
- 3S shows 12-14 and is not forcing
- 3NT not-serious, still interested in slam
- 4C: void
- 4H: control (A)
- 4NT: RKC
- 5S: 2 of 4 (without ♣A) and ♠Q

[655321]

You don't mind missing this slam. You need the ♠J to come down, and even then you have some work to do - ruff all the clubs or set up a heart.

[jdonn]

655321, on Apr 6 2008, 05:46 PM, said:

You don't mind missing this slam. You need the ♠J to come down, and even then you have some work to do - ruff all the clubs or set up a heart.

I would want to bid it but I don't see why it should be missed after 2♠. Shame on north for not even trying. South can't have Axxx Kxxx Axxx x, etc? (not saying that would make an awesome slam but it was hasty example, slam could easily be there opposite club shortness)

[mike777]

With a pickup expert I wish I was allowed to pass in first seat with this but it seems that is not an option with this hand.

If allowed to pass, and I might not be, now I would just bid 4clubs(splinter).

[benlessard]

I used to bid only 2S with those hand, playing weak nt or in MP 2S is probably ok.

But in imps im sure bidding 3 is the correct bid. The club void is worth at least an A.

Quote

Who knows, maybe partner will make a trump suit game try, leaving us 1 down in 3 spades instead of 2 down doubled in 4 spades.

If your partner make a game try and you dont accept its better that you dont tell anybody about this.

Quote

I would want to bid it but I don't see why it should be missed after 2♠. Shame on north for not even trying.

Gross nonsense

[Cascade]

Its an ok slam but I don't mind missing it.

If we shoot at 24 point slams then we will go down a lot when they turn out not to be this good.

I'd be happier bidding beyond 2♠ earlier in the auction if I could show my club shortage.

[the hog]

3S seems pretty normal with this. 2S is an underbid.

[jdonn]

Jlall, on Apr 6 2008, 11:45 PM, said:

jdonn, on Apr 6 2008, 06:31 PM, said:

655321, on Apr 6 2008, 05:46 PM, said:

You don't mind missing this slam. You need the ♠J to come down, and even then you have some work to do - ruff all the clubs or set up a heart.

I would want to bid it but I don't see why it should be missed after 2♠. Shame on north for not even trying. South can't have Axxx Kxxx Axxx x, etc? (not saying that would make an awesome slam but it was hasty example, slam could easily be there opposite club shortness)

Wow, you are turning into ken rexford. I think that making a slam try opposite a 2S rebid sucks.

Of course it does when your max for 2♠ is 10. I say it's auto. Anyway you know you don't have to make a slam try, you can just ask with 2NT (hopefully) and the majority of the time you just bid 4♠ and they don't know what your motivation was.

[dcvetkov]

I disagree with people who say 3S is auto. This is one slam I dont mind missing at all, and it is definitely below 50%. You need to bring trumps for 1 loser, work around clubs and I would say it will be in danger when trumps split 3-1, even with ace of trumps on side.

If you rebid 3S, you know what is going to happen,, Partner is not stopping below 6

[neilkaz]

dcvetkov, on Apr 7 2008, 02:09 PM, said:

I disagree with people who say 3S is auto. This is one slam I dont mind missing at all, and it is definitely below 50%. You need to bring trumps for 1 loser, work around clubs and I would say it will be in danger when trumps split 3-1, even with ace of trumps on side.

If you rebid 3S, you know what is going to happen,, Partner is not stopping below 6

We agree. I wish I could bid 2 1/2♠ but as it is, I have no idea what PD has wasted in ♣ or whether he has a min and 4 average ♠ and we are missing a couple of the key top honors so I'll content myself with a cautious 2♠ response.

[han]

Close call, good slam, highly entertaining thread.

Especially interesting to see that Josh is so repulsed by bidding 3S with 11 high card points that his posts become less and less reasonable.

[joker_gib]

Is that one so different that everybody was bidding 2♠

http://forums.bridge...topic=23718&hl=

[neilkaz]

joker_gib, on Apr 8 2008, 08:29 AM, said:

Is that one so different that everybody was bidding 2♠

http://forums.bridge...topic=23718&hl=

In that hand there is an extra HCP in comparison to this but also a stiff rather than a void. I still bid only 2♠ on both, but they are max's.

[jdonn]

han, on Apr 8 2008, 02:38 AM, said:

Close call, good slam, highly entertaining thread.

Especially interesting to see that Josh is so repulsed by bidding 3S with 11 high card points that his posts become less and less reasonable.

It's ok to disagree with Justin when he's wrong Han. Or even if you simply think he's wrong. He doesn't bite! Or do we have to start calling you the MAS

[skjaeran]

I'm a 2♠ bidder on this. I used to bid 3♠ on hands like this, but I've had some bad experience with that.

On the actual hand north can take the slow route via 2NT, not that it's obvious. Over 4♣ from opener he'll take a look for slam.

[mikeh]

I am also a 2♠ bidder.

1. We do only have 11 hcp... and the opps are silent on a hand in which we own a void. So the odds are that partner is moving, and I will upgrade thereafter as much as possible. I would far, far rather upgrade at my next calls than spent the rest of the auction trying to dampen partner's enthusiasm

2. While 2♠ may miss some good contracts (I don't think it should miss many really good ones), 3♠ will often drive us way too high... partner has relatively little room over 3♠, even if 3N is available as some sort of slam try, frivolous or serious.

As it is, when responder has 5 controls, a 5th spade, the trump Queen and the perfecto heart holding, it is criminal (or very, very lazy) of him to bid 4♠ over 2♠.

Axxx Kxxxx x KQx is all he needs to make slam wonderful

AJxx Kxxxx Axx x makes slam pretty good

And there can be little risk of going overboard when you hold 5 controls and good trump... your partner won't have a hand where he can/should push you too high.. if he bids beyond game, opposite your hand, you rate to make whatever you bid.

[awm]

I would bid 2.5♠ on this hand, since I have that bid available in several partnerships...

Without that call, I think there are some big advantages to making the underbid of 2♠.

If we are only thinking about game, it seems like 2♠ and 3♠ are roughly equal. We will miss some games by bidding 2♠ when partner has five trumps and a non-awful hand. We will get overboard to some bad games bidding 3♠, usually when partner has four mediocre trumps and some club cards. I'm not really convinced that either call is much better than the other.

But for slam bidding, 2♠ consumes a lot less space and is likely to let us show our club shortage later in the bidding. On the other hand, 3♠ cramps the auction quite a bit more and tends to describe a hand with more high card points (and better trumps). There are many sequences where partner will end up blasting keycard over 3♠ (maybe after one round of cuebidding) and we have to figure out whether to basically force slam in order to show the void (having already slightly overbid our hand!) or conceal the void completely in order to own up to only one keycard. Either of these can be quite bad.

[Fluffy]

IMO 3♠ is plain wrong, 2♠ looks normal, and 4♠ a good gamble (showing a minimum 4-6), partner will be completelly unable to evaluate his club honnors.

This looks similar to bidding 1NT-2NT with ♦KQJ10xx. The hand fits or doesn't fit, but it has nothing to do with partner counting his HCP.

[whereagles]

awm, on Apr 9 2008, 10:32 PM, said:

But for slam bidding, 2♠ consumes a lot less space

That is very, very true. Except that there might be no slam bidding if you bid 2♠ only