[the hog]

Imps vul vs not

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(1H) 1S (4H) 4S
(5H) 5S (6H)

What do you bid?

Unfortunately the 4H bid removed a fit showing jump in C from your auction. You onlybid 4S because you are a bit worried about a D and a S loser.

[Free]

I think the problem here is "do i bid 6♠ or are we going to double". I suspect RHO has a void ♠, so the trumps will be onside. I suspect we have at least 10 trumps together. The problem is ♦s. Are we controling them or not? Since partner bid 5♠ after a weak bid from us, while we are V and they are not, I think he's short in ♣s, "long" in ♥s and ♦s.

I think it's best to pass. It should be forcing...

[inquiry]

Your partner's 5♠ was not invintatonal to slam, since at this vul, he could have used a forcing pass.

However, he lacks a ♥ control or a ♣ top honor and yet he bravely bid 5♠. He simply must have good ♠s and a diamond control. I am actually very tempted to pass and then pull my partner's double to 6♠ inviting 7♠. After all we probably would have stopped in 4♠ if left to our own chances. The more I think about it, the more that is probably right to pass inviting six, and pull if partner doubles. However, since I can't be sure 7 is going to be a good contract, I will simply bid 6♠. If they take a 7♥ save, I will use a forcing pass then.

Ben

[Cascade]

Free, on Mar 10 2004, 08:18 PM, said:

Since partner bid 5♠ after a weak bid from us,...

Why is 4♠ a weak bid from us?

I find it losing bridge to bid game vulnerable with a weak hand.

[mishovnbg]

Spoiler

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Hi all!
I think will be difficulte for my patner to bid 5♠ without control ♦, so slam is possible. I don't like for slam: probable lack of entry to ♣ after ♥ lead; weak trumps; pushing us to slam by E can be unwise, but can be insidious too. So I will not bid it directly, but will invite it by forcing pass, mainly show to p void in ♥ (with same hand but singleton I will double). Unlike Ben I will stay on his double, if he decide so. For me searching for grand, while p even didn't invite previous round of bidding is without any reason Ben, sorry.

Spoiler

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Misho

[Free]

Cascade, on Mar 11 2004, 02:34 PM, said:

Free, on Mar 10 2004, 08:18 PM, said:

Since partner bid 5♠ after a weak bid from us,...

Why is 4♠ a weak bid from us?

I find it losing bridge to bid game vulnerable with a weak hand.

Hmmm, I guess it's a remaining part of my original post, when the bidding wasn't correct yet. V vs NV, you should have a sound hand for 4♠, you're absolutely right...

[inquiry]

mishovnbg, on Mar 11 2004, 03:40 AM, said:

Unlike Ben I will stay on his double, if he decide so. For me searching for grand, while p even didn't invite previous round of bidding is without any reason Ben, sorry.

My friend, I think you may have mis-read my post... I said while I think pass then pull inviting seven MIGHT BE right, I would not do that. So.... I did NOT use a forcing pass and then pull partners double. In fact, if I pass with this hand now, and partner did double I would stand for the double... this is why I finally bid 6♠. So check my reply again, I did simply bid 6. IF the opponents were willing to save against 5♠, one of them maybe tempted to save against 6... an added possible benefit.

Ben

[Trpltrbl]

Pd is bidding at 5 level, VUL with no ♣ control. I am bidding 6♠, I have 4 trump void and very nice side suit, pd must have ♦ control for his bidding.

Mike

[the hog]

So I will not bid it directly, but will invite it by forcing pass

Yes Misho, I like this as well.

For those interested, Pd held

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Clubs broke 2-2, so you do make 7, maybe somewhat luckily.

[Free]

"maybe"??? OMG!!

[Trpltrbl]

I guess a ♥ was lead, because on a ♦ lead to have to guess really well, unless Qx ♣ onside.

Mike

[the hog]

The lead makes no difference at all in 7. It makes a difference in 6. They were in 6H doubled at our table incidentally.

[inquiry]

The_Hog, on Mar 11 2004, 04:58 PM, said:

So I will not bid it directly, but will invite it by forcing pass

Yes Misho, I like this as well.

For those interested, Pd held

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Clubs broke 2-2, so you do make 7, maybe somewhat luckily.

The ♠ bidders hand (vulnerable) is just about what it should be. I would have expected a ♥ more perhaps and a ♣ less. Why a ♥ more? With a singleton ♥ he might have passed over 5♥ and pulled our double to 5♠ to invite slam.

If you stop and think about it, at this vul, it is a mistake to use forcing pass here, for the reason I pointed out above. If partner doubles, you are not good enough to suggest grand slam by bidding 6♠ then, although, as I noted, 7♠ could very easy be on. But one thing for sure, 6♠ has to have a great play on this auction, and I don't want to defend 6♥s.

Ben

[mishovnbg]

inquiry, on Mar 12 2004, 04:19 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Mar 11 2004, 04:58 PM, said:

So I will not bid it directly, but will invite it by forcing pass

Yes Misho, I like this as well.

For those interested, Pd held

Dealer: ????? Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠ AKQxxx ♥ x ♦ Axx ♣ xxx

Clubs broke 2-2, so you do make 7, maybe somewhat luckily.

The ♠ bidders hand (vulnerable) is just about what it should be. I would have expected a ♥ more perhaps and a ♣ less. Why a ♥ more? With a singleton ♥ he might have passed over 5♥ and pulled our double to 5♠ to invite slam.

If you stop and think about it, at this vul, it is a mistake to use forcing pass here, for the reason I pointed out above. If partner doubles, you are not good enough to suggest grand slam by bidding 6♠ then, although, as I noted, 7♠ could very easy be on. But one thing for sure, 6♠ has to have a great play on this auction, and I don't want to defend 6♥s.

Ben

Spoiler

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Hi Ben!

Spoiler

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Short ♥ is not enough for forcing pass imo. With 6L you need 5!!! cover cards for slam and if your partner have them, probably he will find the way to slam... 5♠ is perfect bid imo.

Spoiler

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Misho

[inquiry]

Yes, Misho, I would have bid 5♠ with that hand as well. As you say, a short ♥ alone is not enough to use a forcing pass. My view wasn't that he should have used a forcing pass, and I even said his hand was just about what I expected. But I seldom expect the opponents of having a 12 card fit. So all things considered with my own void, I anticipated another ♥.

But with his hand opposite a partner with an announced offensive hand, and me with a hand that is all offense and very little defense myself, I am not going to defend against 6♥... from the bidding I think 6♠ should be almost laydown, and 7♠ maybe cold, which is why I bid on. It would be curious to see how at Ron's table these hands ended up defending against 6♥X.

[the hog]

Our auction won't help you much as we were playing against an odd very light opening system.
(1H) 1S (4H) 4S
(5H) 5S (6H) P
(P) X

I made a forcing pass over 6H and Paul, looking at 3 small C and no D fillers decided to X rather than take my bid at full face value.

Ron