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Competative Bidding

#1 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 10:02

Scoring: MP

(1♠)-X-(2♠)-3♣
(3♠)-?

Kevin Fay
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#2 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 10:06

4♣. I'm a wuss. Wrong shape for a double, although I'd like to hear from others on this, since it might lead to a nice 3N opposite as little as Kxx Ax xxx Qxxxx.
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#3 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 11:20

Can I double to show extra values and a desire to score more than +100? Or does double ask for a spade stop, as discussed here:

Double asking for a spade stop
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#4 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 11:23

Pass.

Maybe I am a bigger wuss than Phil.

I did double over 1♠, did I not? And that is what I have. So I have shown my hand (admittedly, given what passes for a double today, the fact that I actually have my bid means I should bid again - lol).

Partner is in a better position to decide what to do.
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#5 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 11:23

Pass. While I have some extras, my hand still fits the description of "minimum takeout double".

I think since they're red at MPs you could try a double if the 3♣ showed values as part of a Lebensohl scheme.
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#6 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-April-03, 15:51

pass, I would like to make a penalty X but unfortunately it is a game try and partner will bid 3N almost always with a stopper.
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#7 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 22:46

Opps bid 3S RED thinking that hes got a fair chance to make it or that hes got a fair chance of not being doubled I dont see what special extras my hand got to overrule this.
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#8 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 23:06

Pass. I really haven't got much more than I promised.
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#9 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 23:20

I passed. 3♠-1 and 4m is making, I think.

LHO made some crazy raise.
Kevin Fay
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#10 User is offline   effervesce 

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Posted 2008-April-04, 03:48

pass. who was it that first pointed out that 4m over 3M bids (most of the time) don't work? I recall reading it but meh.... in any case, you only have 3 clubs so pass looks normal.
Ming

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#11 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2008-April-04, 04:04

I'm passing too. Partner will bid more when it is right.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#12 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-April-04, 04:37

kfay, on Apr 4 2008, 06:20 AM, said:

I passed. 3♠-1 and 4m is making, I think.

LHO made some crazy raise.

It would have been a crazy raise if you'd doubled them. As it was, it was a finely judged competitive action.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#13 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-April-04, 09:45

Cascade, on Apr 4 2008, 05:04 AM, said:

I'm passing too. Partner will bid more when it is right.

Why? Your partner plays you for this kind of hand when you make a takeout double?

I would also pass but I hate it.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#14 User is offline   dcvetkov 

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Posted 2008-April-04, 10:24

On a side note, what would the dbl show here? I am not sure if it is that clear it is

1) Better hand then minimal, unwilling to sell out, please do something:)
2) Good hand, probably better then this, game try, asking for spade stopper

Can partner pass this double and convert to penalty with 4 good trumps and something to contribute in defence? ( he should of course pull to 4♣ with no defence. 6 clubs and weak 3 trumps

I think its more difficult at matchpoints,,, Playing 3S doubled may be the best score possible. At IMP I pass
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#15 User is offline   sathyab 

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Posted 2008-April-04, 10:24

Cascade, on Apr 4 2008, 05:04 AM, said:

I'm passing too. Partner will bid more when it is right.

If you think your side must bid more, then you have to take some action, not partner again. Being MP, you might easily have a weaker hand for the double. More importantly you may not have as good clubs for the double; most people tend to shade their T/O doubles at MP in terms of shape, if not strength and support for a specific minor is always a little suspect.
Seeking input from anyone who doesn't frequently "wtp", "Lol" or post to merely "Agree with ..."
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#16 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2008-April-04, 10:49

han, on Apr 5 2008, 04:45 AM, said:

Cascade, on Apr 4 2008, 05:04 AM, said:

I'm passing too.  Partner will bid more when it is right.

Why? Your partner plays you for this kind of hand when you make a takeout double?

I would also pass but I hate it.

I guess "Partner will bid more when it is right" is more of a hope than a sure thing. But I am not offering the four-level with only three trumps - yes even three trumps of this quality - the quality quickly diminishes if I have to ruff twice. Sometimes however partner will be able to picture my stiff spade and perhaps extra values and be able to push to 4♣.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#17 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2008-April-04, 10:50

sathyab, on Apr 5 2008, 05:24 AM, said:

Cascade, on Apr 4 2008, 05:04 AM, said:

I'm passing too.  Partner will bid more when it is right.

If you think your side must bid more, then you have to take some action, not partner again. Being MP, you might easily have a weaker hand for the double. More importantly you may not have as good clubs for the double; most people tend to shade their T/O doubles at MP in terms of shape, if not strength and support for a specific minor is always a little suspect.

Sure I could have 2=4=4=3 or even 2=4=5=2 for a takeout double. But I could also have better clubs than the actual hand ~ xxxx with a stiff spade is better than AKx.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#18 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-April-04, 15:33

Some native should point out to Kevin that it is "competitive".
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#19 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2008-April-04, 16:21

han, on Apr 4 2008, 04:33 PM, said:

Some native should point out to Kevin that it is "competitive".

I thought about that too, but I didn't want Justin to reply with this. :)
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#20 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2008-April-05, 03:59

Double.

Not a game try, but shows ekstra values. (Partner is allowed to bid game, but not callously.)

It doesnt promise anything in spades, but does nontheless keep the option of defending open.

It is a game-try at imps.

Best Regards

Ole Berg
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We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.

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