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What are your options? What's your bid?

#1 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 08:18

Scoring: MP

1♣-(5♣)-?


Partner opens 1♣! 15+ HCP artificial and RHO makes the little-seen unfavorable jump to 5-of-a-minor at MPs. What are your options here in your system?

What's your bid?
Kevin Fay
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#2 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 08:58

RHO bid 5♣ r/w? Wow.

When I played strong club, we played a forcing pass over preempts 4♣ and higher. Double showed weakness, pass showed values and no direction, and bids were forcing.

Playing this, this looks like a double. I don't think its good enough for a FP.
"Phil" on BBO
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#3 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 09:15

I too, play forcing passes here, BUT FP announces Spade tolerance/fit. Here that's what I do. Switch S/H, then X.
I think this is good enough to remove partner's X to 5D, hope 15+ is all outside clubs with 3xA and he slams, or 2xA with 5D/5S on.
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#4 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 15:02

I definitely don't play forcing passes in this situation, and I think it's a clear 5♦ bid.
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#5 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 15:30

5♦, total guess.
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#6 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 15:42

The first thing I thought when I held this hand was 'I want to defend 5♣X'.

Nobody shares those sentiments?
Kevin Fay
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#7 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 15:46

Who is RHO?
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#8 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 16:08

kfay, on Apr 4 2008, 10:42 AM, said:

The first thing I thought when I held this hand was 'I want to defend 5♣X'.

Nobody shares those sentiments?

We know so little about partner's hand and partner knows so little about ours it is very unilateral and a misleading description to double with no trump tricks and 6-4-2-1 distribution.

Possibly double would not even be penalties in many partnerships.
Wayne Burrows

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#9 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 17:00

double, card-showing, partner should pull with a shapely hand.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#10 User is offline   effervesce 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 18:36

For a unfavorable vul bid, surely that 5C bid can take 9 tricks with clubs as trumps. That leaves little for partner to have in clubs, if anything. Thus I'd bid 5♦ - a X is misleading, as partner is VERY likely to have everything else in the other suits; that is, AK spades, AK hearts and A diamonds.

In fact, I'd prefer to bid 6♦ rather than X!

NB: The above assumes that the opps bid rationally..... <_<
Ming

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#11 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 20:02

effervesce, on Apr 3 2008, 07:36 PM, said:

Thus I'd bid 5♦ - a X is misleading, as partner is VERY likely to have everything else in the other suits; that is, AK spades, AK hearts and AK diamonds.

I'm pretty sure partner does not have AK of diamonds. I am leaning towards six diamonds, but will bid at least five... i echo the "who is RHO".
--Ben--

#12 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 20:53

6♦? On an unexceptional 7 count opposite 15+? We could easily be down in 5♦, although I don't mind bidding that. Why does partner need every AK outside clubs for his 15+, doesn't LHO exist? Or instead of 9 tricks why can't RHO have, gasp, 10 or 11?
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#13 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 22:33

We played fp at the 5 level. Agree with Phil, would pass here.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#14 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 23:18

Cascade, on Apr 3 2008, 05:08 PM, said:

kfay, on Apr 4 2008, 10:42 AM, said:

The first thing I thought when I held this hand was 'I want to defend 5♣X'.

Nobody shares those sentiments?

We know so little about partner's hand and partner knows so little about ours it is very unilateral and a misleading description to double with no trump tricks and 6-4-2-1 distribution.

Possibly double would not even be penalties in many partnerships.

Double isn't penalty for us. But bidding 5♦ sure isn't for penalty either, is what I'm saying.
Kevin Fay
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#15 User is offline   zasanya 

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Posted 2008-April-03, 23:58

5♦.Always believe your vulnerable opponent. :P
How does it matter who is RHO?If RHO has his bid P wont have enough to move over 5♦.If RHO doesnt have his bid P may have enough to bid slam or LHO's tank will alert us <_<
Aniruddha
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#16 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2008-April-04, 01:01

5 Diamond no matter who RHO is.
If I can show this hand via pass and pull- like Ron and Phil, this would be nice.
But I don't have this agreement, so I "have to" make some noise.
Kind Regards

Roland


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#17 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-April-04, 01:19

gwnn, on Apr 4 2008, 12:00 AM, said:

double, card-showing, partner should pull with a shapely hand.

Agree. I don't consider this particularely close.
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#18 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2008-April-04, 08:02

In my experience opps will not bid an unfavorable 5♣ over a strong club unless they're reasonably sure 5♣x will be good for them, and I'm certainly inclined to believe them on this hand. Actually a 4♣ bid over a strong club can be just as/more annoying than a 5♣ bid.
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