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to bid or not

Poll: What is your bid (22 member(s) have cast votes)

What is your bid

  1. I will sure bid something 5H or 5D, wtp (1 votes [4.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.55%

  2. I pass, still remember the beating when I ran last time (1 votes [4.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.55%

  3. I pass, partner may have KJ109 is spades for pen double (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. I bid 4NT, 3 suit takeout (18 votes [81.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 81.82%

  5. Pass, wtp (2 votes [9.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.09%

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#1 User is offline   dcvetkov 

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Posted 2008-March-26, 05:37



Bidding is

LHO PARtner RHO you
4S Dbl Pass ???
[COLOR=blue] aka Dimitar
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#2 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2008-March-26, 05:40

4NT + pull 5♣ seems canonical.
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#3 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2008-March-26, 06:01

4NT, but that's not 3-suited...
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#4 User is offline   joker_gib 

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Posted 2008-March-26, 06:05

Free, on Mar 26 2008, 01:01 PM, said:

4NT, but that's not 3-suited...



If x is t/o as the majority of experts play this today : 4NT 2-suited
Alain
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#5 User is offline   effervesce 

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Posted 2008-March-26, 07:41

4NT, two places to play.
Ming

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#6 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-March-26, 08:41

If dbl is really penalty I have to pass. Otherwise I bid 4N and correct 5♣ to 5♦.
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#7 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2008-March-26, 09:07

4NT is very obvious.
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#8 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2008-March-26, 09:08

If X was take out, I take it to 4 NT
If X was optional I take it to 4 NT
If X was penalty, I think and then bid 4 NT. I will apologisze if pd has 4 tricks in his own hand which are not useless due to my length in the red suits.
Kind Regards

Roland

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#9 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2008-March-26, 14:18

This is a 4NT and remove 5♣ to 5♦ showing the reds, WTP?
Kind regards,
Harald
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#10 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2008-March-26, 18:43

I too play double for takeout and in response 4NT is two places to play.

This is an excellent combination of conventions as it allows us to make quite off-shape doubles when we have good values.
Wayne Burrows

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#11 User is offline   dcvetkov 

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Posted 2008-March-27, 10:32



Ok, I expected 4NT to win, maybe not so handily. It is logical bid, but as far as I know most people play 4 spades as penalty ( not penalty oriented, or 70 - 30 or whatever). Lets suppose that is on your convention card ( T/O up to 4H).
Do you have some ethical issues to pass,, or you can use best judgment?

I guess hands where bidding on is losing bid, can be constructed, where 4S goes down 1 or 2, and we can not make anything, if partner has maybe 3 and a half trump tricks, but that scenario is unlikely. The double on 4S can show two different types of hands

1) I have 3 or so trump tricks, and have this beaten in my own hand ,please pass unless you have good excuse.
2) I have strong balanced hand 15+, not necessarily trump tricks. Use you best judgment.

Am I the only one who thinks these cases are different? Too bad we have only one bid available, and thats double;)
[COLOR=blue] aka Dimitar
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#12 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2008-March-27, 10:57

I still wait for the hand with 3 sure trump tricks against a 4 Spade opening.
Maybe I just play with too old and too cowardish opponents, but they more often then not have some honours for a 4 level preempt.

And even if they don't, the possibility that they miss 3 or 4 honours in trump and that all therse honours are dealt in my hand is quite small.

So a penalty double based on a trump stack is no good idea.
Kind Regards

Roland

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#13 User is offline   jtfanclub 

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Posted 2008-March-27, 10:58

dcvetkov, on Mar 27 2008, 11:32 AM, said:

but as far as I know most people play 4 spades as penalty ( not penalty oriented, or 70 - 30 or whatever).

When I say penalty at this level, I mean penalty-ish, usually a 15-18 1NT opener.
The hand you list qualifies, barely.

Since a 1NT opener is not what most people expect for a takeout double, I would not call such an X takeout. I certainly don't think I'm under some ethical obligation to pass because some people might think the only Xs are takeout and penalty!

I don't worry about your case 1. If I had, say AQJTx xxx xxx xx, I would have no interest in doubling. They might have somewhere to go!
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