BBO Discussion Forums: Self cue? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Self cue?

#1 User is offline   TylerE 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,778
  • Joined: 2006-January-30

Posted 2008-March-17, 22:00

Had the following (start of) an auction in an ACBL tourney tonight.

1♥ - (p) - 1♠ - (3♣ Weak)
X - (p) - 4♣

What should 4♣ show here, and what lengths does it show in other suit(s)?
0

#2 User is offline   han 

  • Under bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,797
  • Joined: 2004-July-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Posted 2008-March-17, 22:10

I'd play it as a COG. likely 5242 or 5233 without club stopper. Could of course show a strong hand but it doesn't have to.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
0

#3 User is offline   Cascade 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Yellows
  • Posts: 6,772
  • Joined: 2003-July-22
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Zealand
  • Interests:Juggling, Unicycling

Posted 2008-March-17, 22:14

Enough for game with no clear bid.

So probably only five spades or six bad ones and only two hearts and no club stopper and no diamond length (say not 5=5).

It could also be a very strong hand interested in slam outside these parameters - most like would be self-sufficient spades or primary heart support.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#4 User is offline   han 

  • Under bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,797
  • Joined: 2004-July-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Posted 2008-March-17, 22:16

Thanks for clarifying my post again Wayne. B)
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
0

#5 User is offline   jillybean 

  • hooked
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,296
  • Joined: 2003-November-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Vancouver, Canada
  • Interests:Multi

Posted 2008-March-17, 23:03

What is a COG please?
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
Bridge should be fun!
SHAPE!
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." (MH)
0

#6 User is offline   han 

  • Under bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,797
  • Joined: 2004-July-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Posted 2008-March-17, 23:06

choice of games.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
0

#7 User is offline   Cascade 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Yellows
  • Posts: 6,772
  • Joined: 2003-July-22
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Zealand
  • Interests:Juggling, Unicycling

Posted 2008-March-18, 04:10

han, on Mar 18 2008, 06:06 PM, said:

choice of games.

Thanks for clarifying your post Han :P
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#8 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2008-March-18, 05:10

Will the choice always be between hearts and spades? What about these shapes:

5152 (choice between spades and diamonds)
4252/4261 (choice between hearts and diamonds)
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#9 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2008-March-18, 05:15

4♣ is some sort of support bid. Pard should now bid 4♦ regardless and wait for responder to clear up the issue :P
0

#10 User is offline   jillybean 

  • hooked
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,296
  • Joined: 2003-November-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Vancouver, Canada
  • Interests:Multi

Posted 2008-March-18, 07:13

Cascade, on Mar 18 2008, 03:10 AM, said:

han, on Mar 18 2008, 06:06 PM, said:

choice of games.

Thanks for clarifying your post Han :P

Quit being a post hog Wayne.
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
Bridge should be fun!
SHAPE!
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." (MH)
0

#11 User is offline   TylerE 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,778
  • Joined: 2006-January-30

Posted 2008-March-18, 07:14

Thanks for the replies guys.

The full auction was:

1[HE} - (p) - 1♠ - (3♣)
X - (p) - 4♣ - (p)
4♠ - (p) - 5♥ - (p)
6♥

Partner tabled something like

♠Axxx ♥ Kxxxx ♦ KQ ♣ Kx

oppisite my

♠KJx ♥ QJTxx ♦ Jxxx ♣A

Obviously 6♥ was not a success. Partner insisted that 4♣ here shows heart support. My counter-argument was that there was an easy way to show heart support here: Bid 4♥ over the double.
0

#12 User is offline   jillybean 

  • hooked
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,296
  • Joined: 2003-November-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Vancouver, Canada
  • Interests:Multi

Posted 2008-March-18, 07:19

TylerE, on Mar 18 2008, 06:14 AM, said:

Thanks for the replies guys.

The full auction was:

1[HE} - (p) - 1♠ - (3♣)
X - (p) - 4♣ - (p)
4♠ - (p) - 5♥ - (p)
6♥

Partner tabled something like

♠Axxx ♥ Kxxxx ♦ KQ ♣ Kx

oppisite my

♠KJx ♥ QJTxx ♦ Jxxx ♣A

Obviously 6♥ was not a success. Partner insisted that 4♣ here shows heart support. My counter-argument was that there was an easy way to show heart support here: Bid 4♥ over the double.

I would never bid 4♥ this hand is worth a slam try in my books, bad luck. Whether you should make a move over 4♥ is questionable.
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
Bridge should be fun!
SHAPE!
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." (MH)
0

#13 User is offline   helene_t 

  • The Abbess
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,401
  • Joined: 2004-April-22
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Odense, Denmark
  • Interests:History, languages

Posted 2008-March-18, 07:53

Partner should have supported hearts immediately. But I don't understand why you raised 5♥ to 6. Did you see 5♥ as asking for a club control?
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
0

#14 User is offline   TylerE 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,778
  • Joined: 2006-January-30

Posted 2008-March-18, 07:54

Really, the hand is handled much better if responder supresses the anemic spade suit and just makes a GF heart raise.

1♥ - 2NT (no 3/4 ♣ bid here... preempting into a GF auction at R/W??)
4♥ - ap
0

#15 User is offline   nick_s 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 170
  • Joined: 2007-December-06
  • Location:Chicago, IL

Posted 2008-March-18, 08:10

I think Wayne pretty much nailed the answer to your original question.

Just out of curiosity: what was your double? Support? Whether it was or not, I think it should show a non-minimum and may have contributed to your getting too high.
Not an expert, just a student of the game
0

#16 User is offline   bid_em_up 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,351
  • Joined: 2006-March-21
  • Location:North Carolina

Posted 2008-March-18, 08:17

TylerE, on Mar 18 2008, 08:14 AM, said:

Obviously 6♥ was not a success. Partner insisted that 4♣ here shows heart support. My counter-argument was that there was an easy way to show heart support here: Bid 4♥ over the double.

Your counter argument should be, "Why bid 1S instead of making a g/f heart raise?", imo.
Is the word "pass" not in your vocabulary?
So many experts, not enough X cards.
0

#17 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2008-March-18, 08:37

TylerE, on Mar 18 2008, 01:14 PM, said:

Partner insisted that 4♣ here shows heart support. My counter-argument was that there was an easy way to show heart support here: Bid 4♥ over the double.

See? That's why you should play the "WTF is going on?" 4♦ convention, in which a 4♦ bidmerely says:

"Pard, I have no clue what's going on. Please tell me what's the fit!!"
0

#18 User is offline   han 

  • Under bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,797
  • Joined: 2004-July-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Posted 2008-March-18, 11:00

Agree that partner should have made a forcing raise instead of bidding spades, and that you don't have nearly enough to double.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
0

#19 User is offline   Edmunte1 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 593
  • Joined: 2003-October-26
  • Location:Galati, Romania

Posted 2008-March-18, 12:13

1. Your double over 3♣ is very bad. Playing support doubles over 2 in partner's major should definitely show extras
2. 1♠ by partner was also bad, but that's not the main reason you reached this bad slam
0

#20 User is offline   MFA 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,625
  • Joined: 2006-October-04
  • Location:Denmark

Posted 2008-March-18, 14:03

4♣ should be choice of games without a clear direction.
5242 for instance. Not 5 diamonds, since we can just bid 4♦ forcing with that.
Michael Askgaard
0
  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users