[jillybean]

NV vs. V MP

(P) P (3♠) 4♥
(P) P (4♠) X
(P) ?

V, Qxx, Q109xxx, AJ10x

[hotShot]

pass

I read it that they are V.

[vuroth]

I pass.

Partner could have doubled first round if she wanted my input. I have to trust her judgement.

V

[han]

I'd pull for sure. We have 3-card support, a void in their suit and an excellent hand, none of which we have shown. I'd prefer 5H over pass but my choice is to bid 4NT (which partner will interpret as minors) and then bid 5H no matter what partner bids. I expect partner to interpret this as showing slam interest.

[FrancesHinden]

han, on Mar 14 2008, 04:09 PM, said:

I'd pull for sure. We have 3-card support, a void in their suit and an excellent hand, none of which we have shown. I'd prefer 5H over pass but my choice is to bid 4NT (which partner will interpret as minors) and then bid 5H no matter what partner bids. I expect partner to interpret this as showing slam interest.

Me too.

Quote

Partner could have doubled first round if she wanted my input. I have to trust her judgement

Partner still wants your input, but she has shown a different hand. On the first round, she said "I have a hand that thinks 4H is likely to be a good spot if you have an average hand"

By doubling 4S, she has now said "and what's more I have some extra values for my 4H call, so even knowing you might have nothing I don't want to defend 4S undoubled, please do whatever looks best on your hand"



p.s. we were very close to moving over 4H last round.

[andy_h]

han, on Mar 14 2008, 10:09 AM, said:

I'd pull for sure. We have 3-card support, a void in their suit and an excellent hand, none of which we have shown. I'd prefer 5H over pass but my choice is to bid 4NT (which partner will interpret as minors) and then bid 5H no matter what partner bids. I expect partner to interpret this as showing slam interest.

Ditto. Emphasise the pull for sure! We have an awesome hand for partner!

[mikeh]

FrancesHinden, on Mar 14 2008, 10:15 AM, said:

han, on Mar 14 2008, 04:09 PM, said:

I'd pull for sure. We have 3-card support, a void in their suit and an excellent hand, none of which we have shown. I'd prefer 5H over pass but my choice is to bid 4NT (which partner will interpret as minors) and then bid 5H no matter what partner bids. I expect partner to interpret this as showing slam interest.

Me too.

Quote

Partner could have doubled first round if she wanted my input. I have to trust her judgement

Partner still wants your input, but she has shown a different hand. On the first round, she said "I have a hand that thinks 4H is likely to be a good spot if you have an average hand"

By doubling 4S, she has now said "and what's more I have some extra values for my 4H call, so even knowing you might have nothing I don't want to defend 4S undoubled, please do whatever looks best on your hand"



p.s. we were very close to moving over 4H last round.

I agree with all of this: the only difference is that I suspect that I am even closer to having bid last time than Frances is... in fact, now that I passed and partner showed a GOOD 4♥ bid, I feel sort of trapped... I am going to bid, but I can't quite bring myself to bid the slam I fell we might be making.

BTW, as you play in stronger games, this type of problem occurs less and less: no good player is likely to open 3♠ and then bid 4♠. That is a (bad) beginner's sequence.

[vuroth]

Ok, so what's the difference betwen Double then 4H over 3S vs an immediate 4H? Much like simple lower-level overcalls, I would have asssumed that the stronger hands go through X.

Or is the issue here the danger of it going 3S X 4S, then you're shut out from showing your hand (below the 5 level)?

[han]

Double then 4H is more flexible, 4H immediately shows a better heart suit. It does not show a worse or better hand.

[jillybean]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     Pass  Pass
 3♠    4♥    Pass  Pass
 4♠    Dbl   Pass  5♥
 Pass  Pass  Pass  


5♥ seemed right to me. My ‘expert’ partner managed –1 (5♥ I think is cold ♦ loser, pitch ♣ on ♠) and proceeded to tell me that I should never pull his X.

Trying to analyse my hands seems like a waste of time, to get beyond the basics you obviously need a regular, committed partner. I think I should focus on something else and forget bidding until I find one. If you see me posting this baloney again please point me back here!

Han, Frances, Mike I'm free when ever you are

[mikeh]

5♥ is not cold... it can be made, but if they lead a spade, you have to ruff... pitching a club is no good... they win, return a diamond (hardly tough defence) and get a diamond ruff.

Ruff the spade, pray trump are 3-2, which they are, and knock out the diamond A... losing a diamond and a spade.

BTW, I don't like 4♥ as an overcall... my choice would be 3N. That wouldn't get me to 6♦ either.. preempts work... that 4♠ bid was a beginner's bid.

[Cascade]

I bid with undisclosed support this good.

The opponents may not bid soundly but that doesnt necessarily mean they are in trouble.

My partner's first mentor had a saying "Never double a little old lady that bids 1♠ ... 2♠... 3♠...4♠."

This is a variation on that theme.

[mr1303]

Why is it whenever an opponents bids like this (3S .... 4S) they always end up with an undeservedly good dummy?

[Cascade]

mr1303, on Mar 15 2008, 09:27 AM, said:

Why is it whenever an opponents bids like this (3S .... 4S) they always end up with an undeservedly good dummy?

I think it is just more memorable when they do.

Somehow we don't remember the 800s and 1100s when they were stupid.

[han]

Agree with the memorabiltiness.

[jdonn]

Once partner doubles to show a good 4♥ bid, I would even be tempted to bid slam. 4NT then 5♥ would probably do the trick as a try (sorry, B/I I know).

Your partner debatably didn't have his 4♥ bid, un-debatably didn't have his double, and definitely should have made 5♥ as well.

[the hog]

mikeh, on Mar 14 2008, 10:30 PM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Mar 14 2008, 10:15 AM, said:

han, on Mar 14 2008, 04:09 PM, said:

I'd pull for sure. We have 3-card support, a void in their suit and an excellent hand, none of which we have shown. I'd prefer 5H over pass but my choice is to bid 4NT (which partner will interpret as minors) and then bid 5H no matter what partner bids. I expect partner to interpret this as showing slam interest.

Me too.

Quote

Partner could have doubled first round if she wanted my input. I have to trust her judgement

Partner still wants your input, but she has shown a different hand. On the first round, she said "I have a hand that thinks 4H is likely to be a good spot if you have an average hand"

By doubling 4S, she has now said "and what's more I have some extra values for my 4H call, so even knowing you might have nothing I don't want to defend 4S undoubled, please do whatever looks best on your hand"



p.s. we were very close to moving over 4H last round.

I agree with all of this: the only difference is that I suspect that I am even closer to having bid last time than Frances is... in fact, now that I passed and partner showed a GOOD 4♥ bid, I feel sort of trapped... I am going to bid, but I can't quite bring myself to bid the slam I fell we might be making.

BTW, as you play in stronger games, this type of problem occurs less and less: no good player is likely to open 3♠ and then bid 4♠. That is a (bad) beginner's sequence.

Agree with all this. Pass is out and I came very close to bidding last time.