[jtfanclub]

jmc, on Mar 26 2008, 03:05 PM, said:

If people feel that they should remain always in limited events, they never progress into "adult" bridge players. They get used to the sandbox and never want to play in the open games. This hinders the growth and continuation of real bridge.

I guess I don't agree.

For one thing, as another poster pointed out, sometimes one player is an expert and the other player is a complete newbie. There are no good events for such a pair, as if they play the open games they'll create gigantic swings.

I also don't have a problem with people who get used to the sandbox and never want to become "adult" bridge players. I don't think these people will choose to become Open players if not allowed to play in the I/N games. I think they'll become Hearts players, or maybe Euchre.

In the meanwhile, they generate gobs of income for the clubs. Doubling the number of tables barely changes the expenses of the club, and lessons can be expensive. Let them take their time.

[barmar]

To some extent, part of the problem is masterpoint inflation. Until a couple of decades ago, it took a significant amount of skill to become a Life Master. Anyone who had achieved this status would probably not have much fun playing in the limited events. But as it became easier to accumulate masterpoints, it also meant that players with lots of masterpoints could not be assumed to be as skilled or serious about the game.

I'm really not sure what could have been done to accomodate the parent playing with their child. It's not fair to the child to force him to play in the open game, but neither is it very fair to the rest of the players in the I/N room to allow the parent to play there. This is the proverbial "caught between a rock and hard place."

[jdonn]

barmar, on Mar 26 2008, 04:52 PM, said:

I'm really not sure what could have been done to accomodate the parent playing with their child. It's not fair to the child to force him to play in the open game, but neither is it very fair to the rest of the players in the I/N room to allow the parent to play there. This is the proverbial "caught between a rock and hard place."

I think one step in the right direction is for the other I/N players to realize they are something between 'mentally unstable' and 'as evil as satan' if they find any problem with the parent playing in that game so his beginner child can play for the first time.

[TimG]

barmar, on Mar 26 2008, 04:52 PM, said:

It's not fair to the child to force him to play in the open game

My first duplicate experience was when I was about 9. The club my father took me to had an open and a 49er game. We couldn't play in the 49er game, so we played in the open. We placed. The only thing I remember about the game, other than suggesting we average my zero points with my father's points (still not under 50) and making arrangements for the point slip (whatever that was) to be sent to me, was doubling the opponents in 6H and one of my aces not cashing. I guess I hadn't read SJ Simon, at the time. The point slip was mailed to me and I saved it for years before I had accumulated a whole point and could send it to ACBL. But, I would not have known the difference if we had not placed -- I didn't know what matchpoints were.

I don't see what is unfair about having the kid and his father play in the open game. If the open game at a NABC is too intimidating for the kid, maybe a different venue would have been appropriate. But really, the six-year old in the open game would have been treated kindly all day and gotten a lot of attention.

[helene_t]

When I was a child, bridge clubs were so smoky that I would not play there and I doubt many parents would let children play. Other than that I think bridge clubs would be sufficiently child friendly. And today it isn't a problem anymore. But the schedules are not very child friendly, with games generally being played either during school time or after bed time.

[keylime]

For me, the way I made Life Master was exactly what I would script - needing to win the 8th match of a midday Swiss to get 1st in C and 2nd in B to go over the top by at least 16 VP's, and blitzing the opps. I floated for days, and I still smile when I think about it.

[Echognome]

I'll have to let you guys know the magical feeling when I get enough black points to get my Life Master. I imagine it's going to take awhile as I play so seldom at the club. Maybe I should play in more BBO events to get the maximum amount of black points online?

I wonder what I can do with all of my colorless points other than just play up in everything?

[olegru]

TimG, on Mar 26 2008, 06:43 PM, said:

I don't see what is unfair about having the kid and his father play in the open game.  If the open game at a NABC is too intimidating for the kid, maybe a different venue would have been appropriate.  But really, the six-year old in the open game would have been treated kindly all day and gotten a lot of attention.

Probably I was not clear enogh.
There is no problem for kid to play in the open game. He is not good enogh to feel the difference.
It is problem for open game if kid will play there and results from one of the tables will be completely random.
It should not be such a big problem for a limited games there random results is very common.

[blackshoe]

The essential meaning of "open" is that it is open to anyone to choose to play in it. In the ACBL, for example, if you are running an open game, and this kid and his father want to play in it, you cannot bar them on the grounds the kid has little or no experience, and certainly not on the grounds he's a kid.

[TimG]

keylime, on Mar 26 2008, 06:52 PM, said:

For me, the way I made Life Master was exactly what I would script - needing to win the 8th match of a midday Swiss to get 1st in C and 2nd in B to go over the top by at least 16 VP's, and blitzing the opps. I floated for days, and I still smile when I think about it.

I don't know about floating for days, but my early thrills were winning the Open Pairs at a New Hampshire sectional, going 8-0 in an Swiss at a Maine sectional (both with my future wife as a partner), and winning my first open event at a regional (a Swiss in which my partner was my father). There have been others, but none of them were made special by the number of masterpoints (or the resulting rank change).

[barmar]

olegru, on Mar 27 2008, 09:18 AM, said:

It is problem for open game if kid will play there and results from one of the tables will be completely random.

Don't worry about it. It's not your responsibility to protect the integrity of the open game.

Last night I was playing in a club game, and one player had brought along a friend who had never played a hand of bridge before in his life. When they came to our table, they gave us 3 tops. But they probably did the same to just about everyone else, so it averages out. Two tables were disadvantaged because they didn't get to play against them (there were 10 tables in the section, but only 8 rounds), that's the rub of the green. Occasionally players like this cause fixes, so the luck goes the other way, too. It all evens out in the end.

[mycroft]

Sometimes the best players in the room distribute tops across the room, too, and it's a disadvantage to have not played them. This is usually on the one board set in 40 where it is *always* right to be conservative - really conservative.

Oh well.