[hrothgar]

whereagles, on Mar 12 2008, 04:59 PM, said:

Playing results merchant here: Why didn't pard took it out to 2♥?

Because partner has Jx of Diamonds (much better than minimum support)?

Because he has no promise of a Heart fit?

[whereagles]

The spade length makes it more likely that pard will have 3 hearts. Since the diamonds are stacked after RHO's pass, you might as well try this. The worst that can happen is you go an extra down in 3♦

Not that 2♥ is much better, but you might get away with it undoubled or escape for 1 down.

[TimG]

whereagles, on Mar 12 2008, 08:59 AM, said:

Playing results merchant here: Why didn't pard took it out to 2♥?

This is a I-got-you auction which would suggest some desperate measures would be called for, but I don't think pulling with Jx of partner's suit and Axxxx in your suit is called for.

[whereagles]

That's why I said I was results-merchantizing

[han]

Agree that pulling with the east hand is crazy.

[jdonn]

whereagles, on Mar 12 2008, 08:59 AM, said:

Playing results merchant here: Why didn't pard took it out to 2♥?

Playing peanut gallery here. LOL

[brianshark]

Unlucky, but iI get dealt the same hand in the same auction, I'm bidding 2♦ again.

[jdonn]

brianshark, on Mar 12 2008, 12:14 PM, said:

Unlucky, but iI get dealt the same hand in the same auction, I'm bidding 2♦ again.

Your "unlucky" is my "expected". Or you might even call this result lucky. Partner was kind enough to provide an ace and a doubleton trump honor.

[pclayton]

Considering 5♣ is normal (and biddable) after a pass, I wouldn't worry too much about this one. 3N will probably go down on a low heart lead from East.

Agree that pulling 2♦'s would be result merchanting.

[Codo]

pclayton, on Mar 13 2008, 02:44 AM, said:

Considering 5♣ is normal (and biddable) after a pass, I wouldn't worry too much about this one. 3N will probably go down on a low heart lead from East.

Agree that pulling 2♦'s would be result merchanting.

I am a 2 Diamond bidder, so I would like to belive you, butI doubt that most pairs will reach 5 Club.
They will start with
1 ♠ 1 NT 2 ♥

And now?
I have a toll to show the minors now: 2 NT
Pd will bid 3 Club. He surely is not strong enough for more.
I doubt that a majority of pairs will now bid on.

Second choice:
You bid 3 Club after 2 Heart. There is a remote chance, that pd will bid more, but still I would guesss the less then 50 % of all pairs will reach the game here.

Of course there are possibilities to reach 5 Club, but I would bet that in a normal tourney at most 25% of the pairs will find it.

[gnasher]

I wouldn't want to be in 5♣.

After a heart lead and a trump switch it's not great. The best line is to take a spade finesse and ruff the spades good, which works on the actual hand but isn't exactly good odds. The same applies on a trump lead - probably the most likely lead given what the auction would be.

It's better on a diamond or spade lead, but the likelihood of either of these doesn't seem high.

[foo]

hrothgar, on Mar 12 2008, 08:11 AM, said:

This is one of the hands that I really regret.  I'm normally pretty disciplined about two level overcalls, especially with 5332 shape.  This time I decided to be aggressive and got crucified.

Dealer: ????? Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠ 9 ♥ 9 ♦ QT752 ♣ KQ8762 ♠ T63 ♥ KQ8 ♦ AK864 ♣ 54 ♠ Q874 ♥ A7643 ♦ J3 ♣ JT ♠ AKJ52 ♥ JT52 ♦ 9 ♣ A93

South dealt once again leading to the following auction

(1♠) - 2♦ - (P) - P
(X) - all pass

-500 wasn't a good score

After Responder converts the T/O X of 2D to penalty, Advancer should XX.

If Overcaller has 6+D, they sit. If they have 5 ♦'s and 3+H, they bid 2H.

I don't think overcalling 1S with 2m while holding a 5m332 is a great idea, but if you are going to do it, you must have System to handle the potential issues.

(1S)-2m is especially dangerous when your 5m332 has 3 ♠'s in it...

[hrothgar]

foo, on Mar 13 2008, 03:15 PM, said:

After Responder converts the T/O X of 2D to penalty, Advancer should XX.

If Overcaller has 6+D, they sit.  If they have 5 ♦'s and 3+H, they bid 2H.

I don't think overcalling 1S with 2m while holding a 5m332 is a great idea, but if you are going to do it, you must have System to handle the potential issues.

(1S)-2m is especially dangerous when your 5m332 has 3 ♠'s in it...

And what, pray tell, does the overcalled do holding a 2=2=5=4 hand or some such?

Forcing advancer to redouble with Hx in support of Diamonds seems suicidal.

After this hand partner specifically asked me if I thought that he should redouble or bid 2♥. I told him that I thought that his pass was quite well considered.

Partner shouldn't distort his bidding because I made an ill considered overcall.

[foo]

hrothgar, on Mar 13 2008, 07:48 AM, said:

foo, on Mar 13 2008, 03:15 PM, said:

After Responder converts the T/O X of 2D to penalty, Advancer should XX.

If Overcaller has 6+D, they sit.  If they have 5 ♦'s and 3+H, they bid 2H.

I don't think overcalling 1S with 2m while holding a 5m332 is a great idea, but if you are going to do it, you must have System to handle the potential issues.

(1S)-2m is especially dangerous when your 5m332 has 3 ♠'s in it...

And what, pray tell, does the overcalled do holding a 2=2=5=4 hand or some such?

Forcing advancer to redouble with Hx in support of Diamonds seems suicidal.

After this hand partner specifically asked me if I thought that he should redouble or bid 2♥. I told him that I thought that his pass was quite well considered.

Partner shouldn't distort his bidding because I made an ill considered overcall.

Hey, =I'm= not the one making these overcalls...

But if you are going to consider doing so with any frequency, you must put System in place to help manage the risk.

If you overcall 2D with =2254 and it goes (1M)-2D-pa-pa;X-pa-pa-XX;pa-??

...you bid 2N or 3C in tempo and take whatever lumps you earned by making an overcall that =rated= to get pushed to the 3 level.

[jdonn]

So any time the overcaller has 6 diamonds and is getting a bad break, he must play redoubled? Faaaantastic

[foo]

jdonn, on Mar 13 2008, 10:47 AM, said:

So any time the overcaller has 6 diamonds and is getting a bad break, he must play redoubled? Faaaantastic

Nothing in Bridge is certain.

However, if one's 2m overcall is full value and proper shape, that XX by Advancer is going to make the opening side sweat.

Justifiably. Because if the only thing the penalty pass was based on is a bad trump break, Overcaller (who has just been told how to play the hand) may very well make 2DXX.

OTOH, if Overcaller is not full value or not proper shape, a scramble for a better spot commences.

Either way, you rate to be better off than playing Standard.

[TimG]

foo, on Mar 13 2008, 12:37 PM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 13 2008, 10:47 AM, said:

So any time the overcaller has 6 diamonds and is getting a bad break, he must play redoubled? Faaaantastic

Nothing in Bridge is certain.

However, if one's 2m overcall is full value and proper shape, that XX by Advancer is going to make the opening side sweat.

Justifiably. Because if the only thing the penalty pass was based on is a bad trump break, Overcaller (who has just been told how to play the hand) may very well make 2DXX.

OTOH, if Overcaller is not full value or not proper shape, a scramble for a better spot commences.

Either way, you rate to be better off than playing Standard.

If my opponents want to redouble every time they get doubled in 2D, that's fine with me.

[jdonn]

foo, on Mar 13 2008, 12:37 PM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 13 2008, 10:47 AM, said:

So any time the overcaller has 6 diamonds and is getting a bad break, he must play redoubled? Faaaantastic

Nothing in Bridge is certain.

One thing is. If we run a poll on the east hand no one but you will redouble with 4522 and Jx of diamonds! Did you consider what happens if partner runs to clubs or has to pass? Nice to have you back though.

[foo]

jdonn, on Mar 13 2008, 03:05 PM, said:

foo, on Mar 13 2008, 12:37 PM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 13 2008, 10:47 AM, said:

So any time the overcaller has 6 diamonds and is getting a bad break, he must play redoubled? Faaaantastic

Nothing in Bridge is certain.

One thing is. If we run a poll on the east hand no one but you will redouble with 4522 and Jx of diamonds! Did you consider what happens if partner runs to clubs or has to pass? Nice to have you back though.

As I said before, everything depends on partnership agreements as to style.

For instance, if We agree that
a= We will never make a marginal direct 2m overcall with 3 small in their suit and only 5 cards in our minor (so =2353 might be OK, but not =3253 or =3352 with hands of the OP strength and ♠ texture.)

b= That we will not make direct overcalls with minimal strength hands unless our suit is of the appropriate quality. So (1M)-2m requires a minimum suit of Hhxxxx with a 6carder and Hhhxx with only 5 cards if in a hand of minimal overcall strength.

Look what happens. If Richard's hand had been =2353 with full opening values, xx in ♠'s, and Hhhxx in ♦'s, 2DXX would be a much scarier contract for NS to contemplate defending.

If you don't believe this, go do some simulations.

I repeat that I am not advocating Richard's original overcall. It was bad Bridge and ill advised. But there are ways to make more aggressive 2m overcalls of the type Richard was evidently trying w/o putting one's head into the guillotine.

[655321]

foo, on Mar 13 2008, 04:59 PM, said:

Look what happens.  If Richard's hand had been =2353 with full opening values, xx in ♠'s, and Hhhxx in ♦'s, 2DXX would be a much scarier contract for NS to contemplate defending.

If you don't believe this, go do some simulations.

Hmm.

Well, perhaps it is just me, but if I have just passed partner's reopening double, and am expecting to beat them by several tricks, scared is not the word I would use to describe my feelings at the prospect of defending the same contract redoubled, instead of just doubled.