[inquiry]

I play both "remaining count" and "original count" depending upon the partner I am playing with. I think one way may have an advantage over the other, but was wondering what others thought...

Remaining versus original count would be a situation like this, you open lead, say the T from T972..... playing standard carding (high-lo with even)...

With remaining count, you would play the 2 to show 3 cards left (972), playing original count, you would play the 7 to show even cards originally.

Ben

[Rado]

Hi Ben and all friends,
I did not vote at the poll, since the problem with original or remaining count is based on the type of leads/signalling.

At the example given when playing standart (or 3/5) leads and signlals with 10972 and having led the 10 if we return the original count (7) it would easily cost us a trick and relying just on common sence we feel returning the 2 (remaining count) is the correct. Same when playing 2/4 leads and udca then returning the original count - the 2. So I think is good advice to have standar+remaining or 2/4+udca+original.

Same when partner leading through 2-3 small cards in dummy and we have A92 - putting the Ace and returning the 9 seems the correct way to attack this suit.
I'm quite sure that any of us may construct many, many similar examples:-)

Regards
the old man (also known as Rado)

[bearmum]

sorry to be SO dense - BUT WHAT is the difference between "remaining count" and "original count" ??

[inquiry]

Thank you, old man, your no-vote answer is much more important to me than a vote without comments. I think you are onto something here, and your response is in agreement with my current thinking which prompted my question.

Before I give my thoughts on this, let me first answer bearmum’s question of what is “remaining count”. Many times on the first round of a suit you can not give count. These situations are many and varied.

• Partner leads an honor, your first card might be “attitude”
  
• Partner leads small and you have to play 3rd hand high
  
• Declearer finesses into your hand on first round of suit and you win with an honor.

You can come up with more situations, but in each of these cases you couldn't give count on the first round of the suit. So if you get a chance to show count, the question is do you show the “original count”, that is the number of cards you held originally, or “remaining count”, the number of cards left in your hand after the suit has been played.

Let’s take a simple situation. Partner leads a suit and you have A752 and win the ace and plan to return the suit. If you are playing standard, 4th best, with “original count”, you win the ACE and return the 2. With “remaining count”, you win the ACE and return 5 or 7 depending on what you do with three small cards. IF your leads are 3/5, you win ACE and return the 5 with original count, and the 2 with remaining count. Change your hand to K752, and declarer wins the ACE. If partner gets in and leads the QUEEN, you would play the 2 with “with remaining count” (odd from 752) and a higher card to show even number original count (since you had 4 “originally).

Now for my thoughts. Long ago, after reading Mike Lawrence’s "Dynamic Defense", I began playing remaining count. At that time, my leads and signals were “standard”. I fell in love with remaining count. I eventually switched to udca, but kept remaining count (with either 3/5 or 4th best leads). I then discovered, in a large part due to my Bulgarian friends on the BBO, the advantage of 2/4 leads. But I kept up with my “remaining count” signals. But now, in large part due to experience of playing with Misho, who insist on original count, I have come to think that the remaining count/original count does indeed depend upon your leads and signaling choice. That is, this is not neutral (either way as good as the other).

[mishovnbg]

Spoiler

-----------------------------------------------------------

Hi Ben!

Spoiler

------

The truth is due to my long break of playing any bridge is hard for me to change way of my play without losing concentration. Thank you agree to play same way - it help me a lot friend .

Spoiler

------

I am fan of general solutions at begining of defence. Want/don't want to continue on lead is best imho. (little difference vs encourage, because you can want your partner to continue, just because don't have any reasonable switch). In defense any lose of tempo result normally with at least one trick less for defenders. Partner have a much more info about deal, because he already sow dummy and his help is more important than statistical count, when swithcing is critical for defense. Count is normally important in later stage of defense. Very important is not give a count while playing against all time counting expert, because normally his play depend of how he reconstruct distribution of board - even such genius player like Kalin become angry, when I explain high card lead from my partner as "don't like to continue suit", even not sure second if usuitable low . Giving count later is ok, because declarer can't switch normally to other way of play, while defenders must avoid some endplays and make right discards. More complicate suit preferences can help against psyche bids and play and avoid exotic endplays, like "Crocodile" - in same cases count is useless. They can be given all time, but normal way is they to be given in opps trump suit/long established suit on NT. The combination of 3 cards is enough to give detailed preference about the remaining suits.

Spoiler

----------------------------------------------------------

Misho

[Free]

I play remaining count, and I guess it's better than original count. It unblocks a suit automatic...

[luke warm]

inquiry, on Mar 6 2004, 07:18 PM, said:

~~snip~~ I then discovered, in a large part due to my Bulgarian friends on the BBO, the advantage of 2/4 leads. ~~snip~~

i play original count all the time, mainly because it's the way i was taught... but on the above quote, i think it might be a good idea for you to share with the rest of us the advantages of 2/4 vs. 3/5 or 4th ... i've played both 2/4 and 3/5, but admit that i'm not convinced which is better...

[Trpltrbl]

Remaining count, tends to unblock suit. And I have never played otherwise, I think it is about the only part of my bridge game that has never changed.

Mike