[sathyab]

Scoring: IMP

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I watched the bidding on this hand in a recent GNT Open game. North opened 1nt and at one table it went 1nt-2d-2h-3c-3h-4nt-5h-7h ! The other table stopped in 6nt, auction unknown.

After I saw this hand, I immediately wrote to my partner reminding him of the need to play six-key RKC whenever a two-suiter faces a strong balanced opening such as 1nt/2nt. With that agreement, the bidding could go

1nt-2d
2h-3c
3h-3s

4c-4d (RKC, as responder is interested in a major-minor two suiter in which case  the immediate suit after the minor is the kickback suit, when  unambiguous),
4s(1430 structure, 3 keys out of 6), 4nt (Q-ask)

5c (no Q), 5nt(Specific King Ask, 5s can be Specific Suit Ask by agreement)
6s(Spade king)

So now, you have extracted as much information as you possibly can (if you had used SSA in spades you could have found out if pd had Kx of the suit or longer which could have been critical had you been interested in 7c, which could have been the case had partner shown the QofC and you suspected he had four of 'em; 7c would then be safer than 7h without the Jack of hearts, but that's academic now). You know pd has Kxx of hearts, AofD, KofC, but no Q and KofS. He must either have the Queen of Spades or two jacks for a minimum opener. Do you have enough info to try 7nt now ?

If you had discovered that partner was missing either the King of clubs or hearts, it appears to be poor grand, which would be the case if pd had something like KJx KJx AJX Qxxx or some unappetizing variant thereof, so it looks as though introducing clubs would have helped to some extent.

[pclayton]

If Responder actually had a 2 suiter, this idea has some merit, except how can you discover that ♣AKxxx opposite ♣xx has no losers playing this method.

Furthermore, I don't think the key to the hand is necessarily club fillers. What makes it an excellent grand is the 4 diamonds. 5 diamonds is also possibility to make 7 cold.

Since the South hand has a 20 count opposite a 1N opener, I think 6N is rather lazy. Certainly a key card auction and finding aout about the club king is useful. The spade K is also key, however at worse you know its on a guess for the ♣Q.

[sathyab]

pclayton, on Feb 27 2008, 12:09 PM, said:

If Responder actually had a 2 suiter, this idea has some merit, except how can you discover that ♣AKxxx opposite ♣xx has no losers playing this method.

Furthermore, I don't think the key to the hand is necessarily club fillers. What makes it an excellent grand is the 4 diamonds. 5 diamonds is also possibility to make 7 cold.

Since the South hand has a 20 count opposite a 1N opener, I think 6N is rather lazy. Certainly a key card auction and finding aout about the club king is useful. The spade K is also key, however at worse you know its on a guess for the ♣Q.

Ok, if you don't think the key to the hand is the club fillers what else is ? You have all the bidding space you want between 2h and 6nt which almost anyone would reach.

If hearts come home for no loser, any of the other suits can contribute tricks, but if hearts don't come home, then you do need the minor suits to be solid in which case you do need the King of clubs. One cheap way of finding out about the King of clubs is to make clubs a second suit as the Diamond Ace can be figured simply as part of key card inquiry.

You say a holding of 5 Diamonds could also make the grand a good one. But how do you propose to find that out while at the same time not giving up on the possibilty of a heart fit ?

[whereagles]

Given we got 35-37 hcp, I prefer

1NT 2♦
2♥ 5NT
7♥

5NT = balanced hand, forcing to 6NT and invitational to 7♥.

Opener has a min, but he has good hearts and a useful doubleton, so he accepts. Once in a lifetime you'll be missing out an ace, but I can live with that

[pclayton]

sathyab, on Feb 27 2008, 09:35 AM, said:

You say a holding of 5 Diamonds could also make the grand a good one. But how do you propose to find that out while at the same time not giving up on the possibilty of a heart fit ?

I don't mind some type of temporizing bid after the transfer. Obviously a 5332 20 count is a very unusual hand, and it's a good idea to see where our fit is early.

If Opener is allowed to take over with the diamond suit, then, the slam can be intelligently reached.

Playing transfer extensions, the auction would start 1N - 2♦ - 2♥ - 2♠ to show at least an invitational hand with a 5332. Opener could support hearts, responder would cue, although frankly this sequence hasn't come up for me and I'm not sure how the continuations would go.

[kenrexford]

I like the idea of manufacturing a minor suit for practical reasons, but I think it works better if Responder sets the auction up to tell rather than to ask.

1NT-P-2♦(transfer)-P-
2♥-P-3♦(manufactured)-P-
3♥(heart fit)-P-3♠(spade control)-P-
4♣(club control)-P-4♦(two top diamonds)-P-
4NT?-P-(three)-P-
Qask-P-yes

At this point, Opener knows that Responder has the spade Ace, AQxxx in hearts, the diamond King and Queen, and the club Ace. He can count, therefore, five hearts, four diamonds, two spades, and two clubs, for 13 rippers. He bids 7NT.

If Opener is belligerant after 4♦ and bids 4♠, Responder forces him to ask questions by bidding 4♠.

If something weird happens, Responder has enough values to blast a competent guess.

You may object that Opener, in some situations, will not know what "three" Responder has. So what? When the grand is there, Opener will know what three Responder has. When Opener is not sure, we end up in the small slam.

[kenrexford]

BTW, the worst case scenario for my approach is when Opener has one fewer diamond and three clubs (with two clubs, he can probably get in a ruff). So, you might have to guess a finesse or embark on a squeeze or something.

[cherdano]

pclayton, on Feb 27 2008, 11:09 AM, said:

If Responder actually had a 2 suiter, this idea has some merit, except how can you discover that ♣AKxxx opposite ♣xx has no losers playing this method.

Han and me play 6-key card blackwood on auctions where responder has shown a 2-suiter opposite a 1N opener (and similar auctions). The rule is that the K of the second suit counts as a keycard, but only the queen of the agreed suit counts for the queen ask. If responder knows about all keycards and the trump queen, he can still ask for 3-rd round control in the club side suit by bidding 6♣. (If he needs the club queen opposite to have enough tricks, he just asks for kings and opener will cue the ♣Q as if it were ♣K in normal RKCB auctions.)

[TimG]

sathyab, on Feb 27 2008, 11:40 AM, said:

If you had discovered that partner was missing either the King of clubs or hearts, it appears to be poor grand, which would be the case if pd had something like KJx KJx AJx Qxxx or some unappetizing variant thereof, so it looks as though introducing clubs would have helped to some extent.

You probably would have downgraded this 4333, 2 QT hand, and not opened 1NT.

Of course, you could change the NT range to 14-16 or 13-15 and get back to the original point.

[sathyab]

whereagles, on Feb 27 2008, 12:46 PM, said:

Given we got 35-37 hcp, I prefer

1NT 2♦
2♥ 5NT
7♥

5NT = balanced hand, forcing to 6NT and invitational to 7♥.

Opener has a min, but he has good hearts and a useful doubleton, so he accepts. Once in a lifetime you'll be missing out an ace, but I can live with that

I love that idea as I had myself brought it up in an e-mail exchange with a bunch of my buddies "Wouldn't 5nt force 6nt and invite 7nt" ? So now I know that there must be downside to it, just a matter of figuring out what it is

On this hand partner should upgrade KJx to full value and bid 7nt I think.

[whereagles]

TimG, on Feb 27 2008, 06:25 PM, said:

You probably would have downgraded this 4333, 2 QT hand, and not opened 1NT.

All 15 counts are good 15 counts. No proud declarer ever downgrades a 1NT opener, which is bound to give him the play

[Cascade]

Jlall, on Feb 28 2008, 09:26 AM, said:

Really don't see why 5N after 2H would invite 7, that is a normal bid with a 5332 17 count to try and get to the right fit without inventing suits. That is also a much more frequent occurance.

Exactly this is much more useful as pick-a-slam.

[sathyab]

Jlall, on Feb 27 2008, 03:26 PM, said:

Really don't see why 5N after 2H would invite 7, that is a normal bid with a 5332 17 count to try and get to the right fit without inventing suits. That is also a much more frequent occurance.

Aren't you taking up a lot of room with a balanced 17 HCP by jumping to 5nt directly ? Wouldn't be easier if partner could bid a 5-card minor below the six-level. There're so many things you can find out partner's hand and judge to bid 6 or 7 of a minor or for that matter even a 4-3 fit in a solid minor. You're giving all that up just so you can bid 5nt with a balanced 5332 17 count w/o inventing suits ?

For instance if you had caught partner with Kxxx Kx Axx KQxx, all 7c needs is a 4-2 break in clubs.

[matmat]

what was 5H on the original auction?

[sathyab]

matmat, on Feb 27 2008, 04:16 PM, said:

what was 5H on the original auction?

Good ol' RKC with only hearts as trumps; two keys w/o the Q.

[Cascade]

sathyab, on Feb 28 2008, 05:40 AM, said:

After I saw this hand, I immediately wrote to my partner reminding him of the need to play six-key RKC whenever a two-suiter faces a strong balanced opening such as 1nt/2nt.

I hate this convention.

With this convention you can find out that slam is either great or hopeless and you have no idea which ...

Imagine two key cards missing.

Slam might be on one of two finesses - great!!!

or

You could be off two bullets - hopeless!!!

[gnasher]

sathyab, on Feb 27 2008, 10:10 PM, said:

For instance if you had caught partner with Kxxx Kx Axx KQxx, all 7c needs is a 4-2 break in clubs.

You'd have to bid it quite well.

[gnasher]

If responder shows a second suit, opener will think that what matters is how well his high cards fit responder's side suit, whereas the important question is how well responder's high cards fit opener's side suits. This sort of hand is a lot easier if responder can say early on that he's 5332, so that opener knows to treat his side-suit cards equally, and knows that it's OK to cuebid kings freely.

I sometimes play 1NT-2D-2H-2S as a relay, asking how may hearts opener has. A 3D reply would show three; after that any new suit is a cue bid in a 5332 or 6322 hand. That's rather better than having to bid 1NT-2D-2H-5NT.

After this start, the grand slam is fairly straightforward:
1NT 2D
2H 2S
3D 3S (cue bids from here onwards)
4C 4D
4S 5C
5D

At this stage, responder can count 12 tricks as long as there's no trump loser. A 13th trick might come from a club ruff, CQ, a long diamond, or SQ, so responder might just bid 7H (via GSF).

If that doesn't seem like good enough odds, he can instead cuebid his queen of diamonds with 6D. Opener can now count 13 tricks and will bid 7NT.

[Impact]

1NT 12-15 2C Stayman
2D 2S Relay
3H 2-3-4-4 3S R
4D 5 cont now you know Kx Kxx Axxx Kxxx but need DJ & HJ max for a really good grand but you can find out about CQ albeit you know that if he has the CQ he cannot have the HJ....
regards