[TimG]

I like the GIB show double dummy analysis feature. Is there a way to apply it to saved hands, or an application (similar to Deep Finesse) that shows the number of over/under tricks? I have used both Deep Finesse and Double Dummy Solver, but those just tell whether a card is good or bad as far as the contract making, nothing about over tricks or extra under tricks.

[finally17]

TimG, on Feb 23 2008, 08:23 PM, said:

I like the GIB show double dummy analysis feature. Is there a way to apply it to saved hands, or an application (similar to Deep Finesse) that shows the number of over/under tricks? I have used both Deep Finesse and Double Dummy Solver, but those just tell whether a card is good or bad as far as the contract making, nothing about over tricks or extra under tricks.

You can just open the saved hand (.lin file) in the NetBridgeVu.exe and choose the same option as when you're kibbing (GIB -> Show double dummy analysis).

However, this only shows the analysis for the hand as it was played. If you want to see a different line, you can load the .lin into a teaching table and play the hand out how you want, doing the same thing.

[Rossoneri]

finally17, on Feb 24 2008, 11:22 AM, said:

TimG, on Feb 23 2008, 08:23 PM, said:

I like the GIB show double dummy analysis feature.  Is there a way to apply it to saved hands, or an application (similar to Deep Finesse) that shows the number of over/under tricks?  I have used both Deep Finesse and Double Dummy Solver, but those just tell whether a card is good or bad as far as the contract making, nothing about over tricks or extra under tricks.

You can just open the saved hand (.lin file) in the NetBridgeVu.exe and choose the same option as when you're kibbing (GIB -> Show double dummy analysis).

However, this only shows the analysis for the hand as it was played. If you want to see a different line, you can load the .lin into a teaching table and play the hand out how you want, doing the same thing.

Yup....troublesome but works.

[TimG]

finally17, on Feb 23 2008, 10:22 PM, said:

TimG, on Feb 23 2008, 08:23 PM, said:

I like the GIB show double dummy analysis feature.  Is there a way to apply it to saved hands, or an application (similar to Deep Finesse) that shows the number of over/under tricks?  I have used both Deep Finesse and Double Dummy Solver, but those just tell whether a card is good or bad as far as the contract making, nothing about over tricks or extra under tricks.

You can just open the saved hand (.lin file) in the NetBridgeVu.exe and choose the same option as when you're kibbing (GIB -> Show double dummy analysis).

However, this only shows the analysis for the hand as it was played. If you want to see a different line, you can load the .lin into a teaching table and play the hand out how you want, doing the same thing.

Thanks. I can now replay the hand with GIB's analysis. But, when I loaded a hand into a teaching table, I couldn't figure out how to set a contract. Not that important, it is far more complicated that I had hoped.

[kfay]

At the teaching table you can load hands onto the movie function or even a full set of deals by clicking 'open' then importing the files in question.

You can even input hands manually into the blank template if you want to analyze something you played at the local club and just wrote down.

Once you have a deal or set of deals listed you simply click on the one you want and press the 'SEND' button. The deal will then appear on the table.

At the teaching table you're allowed to sit in as many chairs as you want. So if you're teaching someone, you sit at 3 chairs and place them in a hot chair. Or if you're just looking at the deal yourself you just sit at all 4 tables. Then you play the hand as a blank slate. You can conduct whatever auction you want and play the cards however you want, with or without GIB analysis. It's really a fantastic program.

[inquiry]

Try the demo version of JACK. Last time I had it (version 3), it would let you play only so many deals, you could load as many hands as you like and it would do double dummy analysis. The new version is 4, i haven't tested to see if this still works... it is at http://www.jackbridg...jack.htm#infdem. BTW, you may need cascade's converter to go from lin files to pbn for jack and other programs listed below.

Other free double dummy solvers are

There is another one, i am not so sure about. It use to be called bridgemate, but it has been promoted because it is now called bridgecaptain. The double dummy solver is free, and here is the link to it. . http://www.bridge-ca...downloadDD.html

There is suppose to be one from Bridge Studio that is free, see http://www.pcdistric...-prod33521.html

Bridge Calculator by Piotr Beling http://bcalc.w8.pl/i...&topic=download

There are even more listed on the web....

[TimG]

Thanks for the links, Inquiry. The BridgeCaptain solver is Double Dummy Solver which I mentioned in my post -- but, I now appear to have a newer version. None of the programs automatically show number of tricks associated with each card as the GIB analysis on BBO does, though many have the option of showing the current double dummy tricks for each card when requested. It's probably a computing time thing.

[Cascade]

TimG, on Feb 25 2008, 03:56 AM, said:

finally17, on Feb 23 2008, 10:22 PM, said:

TimG, on Feb 23 2008, 08:23 PM, said:

I like the GIB show double dummy analysis feature.  Is there a way to apply it to saved hands, or an application (similar to Deep Finesse) that shows the number of over/under tricks?  I have used both Deep Finesse and Double Dummy Solver, but those just tell whether a card is good or bad as far as the contract making, nothing about over tricks or extra under tricks.

You can just open the saved hand (.lin file) in the NetBridgeVu.exe and choose the same option as when you're kibbing (GIB -> Show double dummy analysis).

However, this only shows the analysis for the hand as it was played. If you want to see a different line, you can load the .lin into a teaching table and play the hand out how you want, doing the same thing.

Thanks. I can now replay the hand with GIB's analysis. But, when I loaded a hand into a teaching table, I couldn't figure out how to set a contract. Not that important, it is far more complicated that I had hoped.

Sit in all four hands and have the declarer just bid the final contract. Double dummy analysis does not rely on the exact bidding. So I just have auctions like 4♥ Pass Pass Pass or Pass Pass 6♦ Pass Pass Pass all of the time when I am playing through a hand on BBO with the aid of GIB.

Jack is also excellent as it gives a single dummy score for potential plays as well.

[grrigg]

At the risk of derailing this thread, how does double-dummy analysis work? I am assuming that you dont blindly check all possible plays, but I am having trouble coming up with something better that would work in all cases. Please feel free to post a link if an explanation is too long to be put here.

[helene_t]

grrigg, on Feb 24 2008, 09:02 PM, said:

At the risk of derailing this thread, how does double-dummy analysis work? I am assuming that you dont blindly check all possible plays, but I am having trouble coming up with something better that would work in all cases. Please feel free to post a link if an explanation is too long to be put here.

It is called alpha-beta pruning. It is easier to understand in the case of a one-player game, say you play all your 13 cards one by one according to some strategy, and each time you are told whether you won the trick. For you to devise the strategy that gives the most tricks.

Say the first shot gave you 7 tricks. Now you try again. Say after 9 tricks you have only won 3 of them. Now there is no point in worrying about the last 4, since you would never be able to do better than the already known strategy. So you "prune" the last 4 tricks away and proceed to the next strategy to be tested.

It gets more complex in the two-player case (DD is in effect a 2-player game) but you can probably imagine that similar ideas will work.

There are some tricks specific to bridge that can be used to avoid nonsense strategies. For example if the 9 and 10 have already been played, the 8 and J are equivalent so of two strategies that only differ by a switch of 8 and J you only need to test one of them.

It helps to look at the most plausible strategies first, for example following rules of thump such as "win the trick as cheaply as possible in 4th seat". Then you will quickly find a reasonable strategy so you can prune away the silly strategies after just a few tricks.