[helene_t]

Another request for clarification for "Forum Precision", the FD file that I maintain on the basis of forum input. It is very simple Precision, as natural as possible, and close to the original Wei Precision but with some adaptations to modern bidding style (looser requirements for 1NT openings and such).

The uncontested auction
1♣-1♥
1♠*

1♥ was GF, 5+ hearts.

If responder had bid 1♦ (negative), opener would try to avoid bidding a fourcard major but may do it with an awkward hand.

If responder bids 1♥ it may feel similar to the situation after a 1♥ opening, when we obviously allow for a 1♠ response on a 4-card. This situation is different though since we are in a GF so there is little or no risk of losing the spades fit if opener rebids 1NT or a minor.

[Cascade]

Never.

Maybe 4=1=4=4 is awkward but you are probably better lying about a minor rather than 1♠ if you cannot bring yourself to bid 1NT.

[cjames]

I agree on never, just bid NT.

[Gerben42]

Disagree. This situation is similar to 1♥ opening and 1♠ response. Unless you have a good 5-card minor to bid, respond 1♠ on 4 cards. The auction is so low that partner can distinguish between 4- and 3-card support without any problems.

[gwnn]

I'd certainly never bid 1♠ on 4 cards. The stronger we are, the closer we should stick to la long d'abord (and I know I misspelled that).

[hrothgar]

I think its best to distinquish between two different questions

1. What is the best treatment over 1♣ - 1♥?

I'd argue that style in which a 1♠ response promises an unbalanced hand with 4+ Spades (probably) wins out over a style in which 1♠ promises 5+ Spades

2. What is the best treatment within the context of what is described as an extremely simple/natural structure

I think that the additional constraints tilt the tables in favor of a 5+ card 1♠ response

[helene_t]

hrothgar, on Feb 20 2008, 04:25 PM, said:

1. What is the best treatment over 1♣ - 1♥?

I'd argue that style in which a 1♠ response promises an unbalanced hand with 4+ Spades (probably) wins out over a style in which 1♠ promises 5+ Spades

Yes of course, optimal use of bidding space would allocate 50% of all hands to 1♠, assuming that opps are not going to interfere. Even more if we agree that opener is captain.

But as you also observe, this is not really the issue in this poll

[csdenmark]

helene_t, on Feb 20 2008, 07:33 PM, said:

hrothgar, on Feb 20 2008, 04:25 PM, said:

1.  What is the best treatment over 1♣ - 1♥?

I'd argue that style in which a 1♠ response promises an unbalanced hand with 4+ Spades (probably) wins out over a style in which 1♠ promises 5+ Spades

Yes of course, optimal use of bidding space would allocate 50% of all hands to 1♠, assuming that opps are not going to interfere. Even more if we agree that opener is captain.

But as you also observe, this is not really the issue in this poll

You always agree about captaincy. Else it is not Precision but instead any kind of club system. Precision is to play 'Don Quixote and Sancho Pancha'.

The treatment over 1♣-1♥ is similar to 1♥ opening. This means you only introduce an alternative to a MAJOR if you have a good alternative. To introduce a minor you will have 0-1card support.

[jtfanclub]

I would bid 1♠ on a wide variety of hands.

For example, the auction
1♣-1♥-1♠-2♦
shows 4 diamonds

The auction
1♣-1♥-1NT-2♦
promises 5.

I expect partner to raise 1NT to 3 with any balanced hand with less than a 12 count. Sometimes the lack of information is very useful- after all, declarer has shown almost nothing about his shape.

On the other hand, I do not expect partner to jump to 3NT over 1♠, ever. If he jumps, it will be to give more shape information. I can easily find out at least 12 out of 13 cards for his shape before we have to decide what game to be at and how high.

If I want a shape auction, I raise hearts or bid a new suit. If I want a don't-ask-don't-tell auction, I bid 1NT. If I want a control-seeking auction, I bid 2NT. Whether I have 4 or 5 cards in the suit isn't terribly relevant. Anybody who plays responder as captain is crazy: responder has shown 5 cards already, opener has shown 0. Who do you think is going to be able to show their shape easier?