[twcho]

1♣ - 1NT - Pass - 2♦
3♣ - X?
Note: 1NT strong NT 15-18; 2♦ is transfer to ♥

What should this double mean?

Will the scoring method affect its meaning? Will the vul? Will the opposiition level?

[Hanoi5]

I'd take it as for penalties.

This, however, I don't understand:

1NT Pass Pass 2♠
Dble

Is it for penalties or take out? Does it need to be agreed upon or is it meaning usually the same?

[helene_t]

The double of 3♣ can be agreed as penalty, or as a double shot with 3-card support but also a good hand for defense. Pure t/o doesn't make much sense I think.

The double of 2♠ in Hanoi's question should be t/o, but if the overcall had been 2♥ I think you could alternatively agree to play it as a double shot, with 4-card spades but also a good hand for defense.

[whereagles]

When pard bids a 5 card suit over a NT (in this case, hearts), it is implicitly assumed that "we have found a fit", so doubles become penalty. Pard can, of course, take it out with a 55 or 6+card suit if he judges that to be the appropriate action.

[han]

It becomes assumed that we have a fit?

I also play this one as penalty.

[P_Marlowe]

Penalty.

There is a point in time, if they cross a certain line, they have
to pay.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jdonn]

Jlall, on Feb 18 2008, 10:46 AM, said:

I would play this as 1000 % penalty, partner please pass with xxxx xxxxx xxxx --- because they are still going down 2 when you have that hand typ.

I play it as penalty, please pass with any hand, but oh ***** if you have xxxx xxxxx xxxx --- I maybe have made a mistake

[whereagles]

han, on Feb 18 2008, 03:18 PM, said:

It becomes assumed that we have a fit?

Yes. But this is just a definition. One can play it in other ways.

It doesn't mean we'll have an 8 card fit 100% of the time; just that if a better one was available, pard would have bid that one instead (or will bid it now with 55 or 6+ cards).

[pclayton]

Should be penalty. The NT overcaller can easily have a lock on 5 defensive tricks here.

This should not be any different than:

1N (pass) 2♦ (3♣)
Dbl

[Cascade]

Penalties.

[Cascade]

Hanoi5, on Feb 19 2008, 02:37 AM, said:

This, however, I don't understand:

1NT Pass Pass 2♠
Dble

Is it for penalties or take out? Does it need to be agreed upon or is it meaning usually the same?

Takeout for me.

[gwnn]

Yes we have to assume that's our fit, just like

1♥-x-p-2♠ is an assumed fit, hence

1♥-x-p-2♠
3♥-p-p-x is penalty

[skjaeran]

gwnn, on Feb 18 2008, 09:41 PM, said:

Yes we have to assume that's our fit, just like

1♥-x-p-2♠ is an assumed fit, hence

1♥-x-p-2♠
3♥-p-p-x is penalty

This is not penalty to me - it shows a maximum, basically balanced and decent defence. Partner converts or takes it out according to his hand.

[gwnn]

Yes you're right. That was a bad example. More like it is:

1♥-x-p-2♠
3♣-x

which is pure penalty, and invites partner to penalize 3♥, if he can.

My original auction can't be pure penalty since the 2♠ bidder will have that hand far too infrequently (Axxxx KQJT x xxx???).

[kenrexford]

This sequence reminds me of a humorous story hand.

I came in for the second set of a Swiss event (five-bagger), only to have my partner, on the first hand, answer aces wrong in a vulnerable slam auction. The end result was that I bid the "safer" 6NT. 6♠ was cold. 6NT, a contract that was doubled, was going for a WILD number. I made a falsecard that saved -2300 and instead yielded only -500.

Board 2. I was dealt ♠AKxx ♥xx ♦xx ♣AQ109x.

RHO opened 1♣. I overcalled 1NT, a tad of an overbid. LHO passed. Partner started a transfer to hearts (2♦).

Things got interesting when Opener, vulnerbale against not, doubled this. Now, there are a lot of discussions as to what strength is necessary for a redouble. Maybe AJ9x? I felt confident that xx was enough. So, I redoubled.

LHO was slihtly mystified by this development, but there was no XXX card available. (How much more interesting would bridge be with a XXX card? Not a re-redouble. Just a card to note the indecency of an occurrence.)

Partner passed, smoothly. He was probably shaking from the slightly negative musings I had provided as a response to his auction on the prior hand.

Poor Opener. What to do? What to do? 3♣ seemed safe. +1400. Back to par?The first hand ended up being -500 and -680 for -1180, +1400 and minus something ended up a relative wash.

I cannot remember what happened on the next five boards.

The moral? Double is 1001% penalty (the extra 1% is in case I overcalled 1NT on a club stack and a sense of humor).

[han]

Good moral.