[hallway]

I have a problem with Missing Subs

They vow and declare that they have clicked upon the Sub button not once , not twice but numerous times.

When I need them and I click on the TD's - Show Substitution button - nobody there !

I have tried telling them 'please do not kib' in case their name vanishes into cyber space if they enter a table. (Does it ?)

It is a trial and a tribulation for Aged Voids

[Frosty]

I have to admit that I've had LOTS of problems with subbing when the first person listed and eligible on the sub list either doesn't respond to the call or rejects it. Other than making a manual substitution with a player further down the sub list who won't get a warning - I don't know how to get past the Sub who is blocking the list. Is it possible that when a person (who has signed up to sub) refuses a call to sub that they could be moved to the end of the list?

Also have had failed sub call responses come back long after I've made them and long after I've already found a replacement.

Frosty/Jan

[spwdo]

hi,


let me try and answer this correct. When u send invitations, the first one goes to the first person on the list, when he refuses or it takes to long and u click again"substitute now" the invitation goes to somebody else, we suggested this to uday a while ago to drop a name that refuses to much, also we suggested that it would be good thing to not allow enemies of the host have possiblitly to add themselves to the list, i agree it can be sometimes hard when several ( the highest ) on your are constantly refusing , as for hallways question, u click once on the sublist and u are sub, second time u remove yourself again and so on, encourage your subbers to not watch the tourney in progress= not fiar, if u feel they not responding to that enough, u can make an add to the lobby asking subs to private u and manual typ in these names, btw uday replied to that question for software change he will change when he got a spare moment for it and that it wasnt his highest proirity, we know how busy our dear friend is so asking little patience there. when and why they disapaer i dont know for sure but i think either they removed themselves or they went to play in another tourney or maybe also after some period of time has passed.



hope this helps you a little


greetings marc

[uday]

There are 4 ways to sub

1) specify old/new player by typing them in. System will sub without inviting.

2) Type in old player, leave new player blank. System will invite from sub list, using 1st player who is free (ie, is not thinking about whether to accept a previous invite)

3) Show sub list, select a missing player and a sub . System will invite this sub.

4) Show sub list, select a missing player. system will invite a free sub. I think.


I agree would be good to toss subs that dont answer, will do it someday.
Not all players on the sub list are elibible for subbing. If I recall correctly, system will not invite or display a "sub" who is currently playing at a table.

[hallway]

THANKS !

[Frosty]

Thanks Uday -

Why not just move the declining sub to the bottom of the list? Would that be an easier change?

Frosty/Jan

[uday]

Would have been a good thing to do :)

[McBruce]

I would like at some point to see players who have already been in the tournament and left (for whatever reason) to be banned from joining the sub list for that tournament. As it stands, a player replaced by a TD can simply rejoin the sublist and get back in by request of a player whose partner is red. In an unclocked game there is even the chance that the sub will play a board he/she has already played. But the worst problem is that you can kick someone out for calling partner a bunch of unacceptable names and look fifteen minutes later and find the miscreant back in your tourney!

If somebody is accidentally disconnected, most TDs would be happy to sub directly if they received a message from the player like: "hi TD--sorry, was booted by accident on board 3, please feel free to sub me in now."

[Azzkikr]

Thats not quite true. I was disconnected and then was back within 3 minutes. i had 8 minutes on the clock and 5 cards to play on the last board of the round. By the time i got back online the director had already subbed somoene into my seat and when i asked if i could be subbed back in he blatantly refused. He didnt even ask the sub if it was okay if i was subbed back in. I took great offense to this and still do.

As for the sub issue i have found that if you have a co-director, not even a TD from out outstanding base of TD's but a friend or associate who you can get to go the leg work on requesting subs for your tournament that it does aleviate alot of the problems. Since i have been doing that i havnt had any sub problems with the tournies.

[McBruce]

McBruce: I would like at some point to see players who have already been in the tournament and left (for whatever reason) to be banned from joining the sub list for that tournament. As it stands, a player replaced by a TD can simply rejoin the sublist and get back in by request of a player whose partner is red. In an unclocked game there is even the chance that the sub will play a board he/she has already played. But the worst problem is that you can kick someone out for calling partner a bunch of unacceptable names and look fifteen minutes later and find the miscreant back in your tourney!

If somebody is accidentally disconnected, most TDs would be happy to sub directly if they received a message from the player like: "hi TD--sorry, was booted by accident on board 3, please feel free to sub me in now."

Azzkikr (next message): Thats not quite true. I was disconnected and then was back within 3 minutes. i had 8 minutes on the clock and 5 cards to play on the last board of the round. By the time i got back online the director had already subbed somoene into my seat and when i asked if i could be subbed back in he blatantly refused. He didnt even ask the sub if it was okay if i was subbed back in. I took great offense to this and still do.

As for the sub issue i have found that if you have a co-director, not even a TD from out outstanding base of TD's but a friend or associate who you can get to go the leg work on requesting subs for your tournament that it does aleviate alot of the problems. Since i have been doing that i havnt had any sub problems with the tournies.

Am I missing something here? It seems you are saying that I replaced you and refused to let you back in. You were not even mentioned in my original post, or indeed any post in this thread. Unless you were playing under a different name at the time, it was not you I was referring to. I recall no player ever asking me to get back in during a tournament I have run.[Phrase deleted]

If I was faced with a situation like the one you describe I would certainly sub the player in, but you must realize two things:

1) Even the best Director cannot always remember who has replaced who in a busy tournament. You would likely have to wait until the TD had some free time to confirm with your partner that you were the original player. Expecting to come back and sit in immediately is unreasonable: it might take 3-5 minutes to get time to check if the TD is busy.

2) People who have poor connections have to realize that they play at a disadvantage. If you are disconnected occasionally and you take tournaments seriously, you should get a better connection -- or expect that your results are going to take random hits.

This post has been edited by McBruce: 2004-March-03, 01:52

[Frosty]

I know there isn't really a policy regarding subs, per se, but it seems to me that it should be the TD's call - not the partner's - as to whether a sub is seated. If the tournament is UNCLOCKED, it is likely that a TD has quite a bit of leeway in letting a player wait for his/her partner's return. If the event is CLOCKED, the TD has limited leeway depending on the time limit per Board.

For what it's worth, I seat subs shamelessly, without asking the partner's permission because I run CLOCKED events with tight time limits. If its the end of a round and a cut is coming, I am very quick to seat a sub so that the partner can advance if possible.

I've been at both ends of this, having booted and lost my seat to subs in tournaments, but I still do not return players to their seats after they've disconnected. At other sites where I've Directed, tournaments were run with floating subs. These folks were part of the TD staff and were there specifically to fill in for players who were disconnected temporarily. They understood that they would be hopping in and out of seats (but not on and off the site) for the duration of the event. If it became evident that a disconnected player was not returning, a permanent sub was drawn from the player community rather than the tournament subs. At BBO, a sub is basically asked to drop whatever they are doing and play for the rest of the tourney. For this reason I do not pop them in and out of an event.

If, in the future, there is an understanding on the part of the subs that they are going to get thrown off BBO when the original player returns, its a whole new ball-game. (Personally I would bet that fewer people will sign up to sub if this happens.) But in the interim, I am dependent upon those who sign up to substitute and could not complete a tournament without them, so I treat them with appreciation and allow them to play out the event.

Frosty/Jan

[spwdo]

hi,


3 reasons not to replace a sub.

1.replaced player often(not always) has same poor connection next rounds
2.replaced players when they get back often go to their former table to kibits on their partner( not fair if seen hands)
3.not fair to the sub, and i think u woud be quickly finding yourself with lesser and lesser subs.
i feel u cannot ask from players that they come in , ply one card and get subbed out again, who is subbing anyways?excused players from that tourney, friends who do you that favor, players just finished another tourney , players coming in to late, players whos partner was offline at start. They have all one thing in comen i think and that is to play what is left of that tourney



love to the subs, without them no tourneys

!S!d!C!H thx to subs we`re able to play in this event, so handle them with great care !S!D!C!H





greetings marc
p.s. mc bruce al this red hurts my eyes, really sorry but it does and i would like to read every thing u write or when there is some way for me personal to change these bright colours , please please let me know

[spwdo]

thx purple much much better:))))))