[DWM]

What is standard in this situation

1NT - (P) - 2♦ - (2♠)
??

Do Pass, Double, 3H, 2NT have meanings? if so what?

Also after

1NT - (P) - 2♦ - (X)

XX, pass, 2H, 2NT?

Cheers

This post has been edited by Gerardo: 2008-February-04, 13:57

[P_Marlowe]

#1 Pass = nothing to say
X = Penalty
3H = 4 card support, and most likely not 4333
you could certainly agree, that 3H shows
only 3 card support with max as well
2NT = ???, I would assume it should show a max.
NT opener with 4 card support, but this is
certainly not standard

#2 one common agreement
Pass = xxxx in the suit, a sugestion to play, but
no values in the suit
XX = strong sugestion to play
2H = nothing to say
2NT = ???, most likelyit means the same as without
the interference

With kind regards
Marlowe

[gwnn]

pass: I wouldn't have bid 3♥
2NT, 3C, 3D: whatever you agreed 1NT-2♦-.. would have meant. I like these to show a good side suit of 4 (5 in case of 5422) cards. 2NT should be spade values, but you'd just pass then probably.
3♥: just a superaccept.

These bids don't need to show the Ultimate Seventeen Count. The superaccept might be somwhat shaded, since sometimes we need to fight for the partscore and partner can't distinguish between bad 15 with 2 and good 15 with 4. Maybe 2NT should show 4 cards and solid values and the rest just nice hand and rather minimum.

..2♦-x:

XX should show two honors fourth or better.
Pass should show 2 cards in partner's suit
2♥ should show just a normal hand with 3-4.
the rest should show a normal superaccept.

[kfay]

1N-(P)-2♦-(X)

For me pass denies 3 trumps and 2♥ shows 3 trumps.

I have to say that here over a 1NT opener I really hate playing XX is for penalties. The hand that wants to do this is so rare and the hand that can actually do it is rarer still, imo. I have never come across the 1N-transfer-double acution where I want to redouble. Over 2NT-transfer-double it becomes more playable to me.

I like to play XX as a hand that would have accepted some sort of game invitation from partner and, thus, a hand that is willing to compete to some level of the transfer suit.

A problem that I ran across recently is the meaning of this auction:

1NT-P-2♦-X
 P - P -XX-P

Here I think that Redouble by partner demands that you accept the transfer.

Edit: I agree with the general sentiments about the other auction.

[rbforster]

P_Marlowe, on Feb 4 2008, 11:35 AM, said:

#2 one common agreement
    Pass = xxxx in the suit, a sugestion to play, but
            no values in the suit
    XX = strong sugestion to play
    2H = nothing to say

I would think this is a little more common -

  XX 4+ good ♦s, suggestion to penalize/play
  2♥ 3+♥s
  Pass nothing to say, only 2♥s

[skjaeran]

DWM, on Feb 4 2008, 05:24 PM, said:

1NT - (P) - 2♦ - (X)

XX, pass, 2H, 2NT?

Cheers

Here I play:
pass=2♥
2♥=3♥ and a ♦ holding I'd like the lead coming up to.
XX=3+♥ and a ♦ holding suggesting partner be declarer (xx/xxx/Ax/Axx etc).
Higher bids - superaccept

[Cascade]

Jlall, on Feb 5 2008, 05:45 AM, said:

Over a X I think standard is that pass shows 2 trumps, 2H shows 3+trumps, XX=business. One good agreement that I've seen is that over the X, XX shows a hand with 3 trumps that wants to compete if they bid. That way when you have Axx AQx xx KQJxx you don't have to guess whether or not to bid when they compete to 3D, you can involve partner

This is an excellent agreement. After the double you can anticipate competition so it is useful to tell partner in advance that you have a hand that is suitable to competing further or is more defensive.

We actually play XX = is defensive and completing the transfer is offensive but you could play either way around.

In addition over the pass that shows only two trumps we play that XX by responder forces opener to complete the transfer after which normal system is on - new suits forcing etc - whereas if responder just bids another suit that is an attempt to play in the second suit.

[zasanya]

For those who suggest after 1NT-P-2♦-dbl; pass suggests 2card ♥ I would like to ask what responder is supposed to do. Will she agree to play 2♦ X? Very unlikely IMO.So either she will bid 2♥ herself or make whatever partnership agreement there is for asking opener to accept transfer and bid 2♥.So it makes more sense to accept transfer with 2 card ♥ and pass with 3 cards.This allows you to redouble to show 4 cards of ♥ + hand short of superaccept leaving other bids available for hand strong enough to superaccept.This approach is suggested by Ron Klinger in one of his books on acol.
Another way to play against the dbl of a transfer bid, is redouble to show 4 cards headed by A or K in dbld suit .I have fond memories of this gadget as on one occasion my P bid stayman ;RHO dbld ;I redoubled with 4 ♣ cards to the A. P played in 2♣ dbld ,in 4-3 fit and 5-1 ♣ break but still managed to make 9 tricks

[kfay]

zasanya, on Feb 5 2008, 03:54 AM, said:

For those who suggest after 1NT-P-2♦-dbl; pass suggests 2card ♥ I would like to ask what responder is supposed to do. Will she agree to play 2♦ X? Very unlikely IMO.So either she will bid 2♥ herself or make whatever partnership agreement there is for asking opener to accept transfer and bid 2♥.So it makes more sense to accept transfer with 2 card ♥ and pass with 3 cards.This allows you to redouble to show 4 cards of ♥ + hand short of superaccept leaving other bids available for hand strong enough to superaccept.This approach is suggested by Ron Klinger in one of his books on acol.

To me pass suggesting my hand isn't good for the transfer suit just makes more sense intuitively. It seems rather arbitrary which way you assign (bid) v. pass.

Partner can then bid 2NT to play, etc., or just demand a transfer acceptance (XX), possibly following it up with an invitational 2NT.

Now we're playing in our 5-2 fit that we were going to be playing in anyways but most likely partner is better informed as to whether they want to move on with the auction or not.

[Cascade]

zasanya, on Feb 5 2008, 09:54 PM, said:

For those who suggest after 1NT-P-2♦-dbl; pass suggests 2card ♥ I would like to ask what responder is supposed to do. Will she agree to play 2♦ X? Very unlikely IMO.So either she will bid 2♥ herself or make whatever partnership agreement there is for asking opener to accept transfer and bid 2♥.So it makes more sense to accept transfer with 2 card ♥ and pass with 3 cards.This allows you to redouble to show 4 cards of ♥ + hand short of superaccept leaving other bids available for hand strong enough to superaccept.This approach is suggested by Ron Klinger in one of his books on acol.

I think this is clear not best.

If I show two hearts then we might want to play a different strain.

After

1NT (Pass) 2♦ (Dbl)
2♥ (Pass) ?

Here there is only one way to get to 3♣ which no doubt in most partnerships opener would assume was the normal natural and forcing club bid.

Whereas after

1NT (Pass) 2♦ (Dbl)
Pass (Pass) ?

There are two ways to get to 3♣. I can bid 3♣ directly or I can redouble forcing 2♥ and then bid 3♣.

1NT (Pass) 2♦ (Dbl)
Pass (Pass) 3♣

We use this as an offer to play and

1NT (Pass) 2♦ (Dbl)
Pass (Pass) RDbl (Pass)
2♥ (Pass) 3♣

We use this as if the transfer had not been interrupted to show the game going hand.