[macart]

I was playing this evening on BBO in a SKYCLUB Tourney being directed by The_Matrix. When I sat down at Board 1 - I had 2 star players N/S - the Auction went 1NT by RHO, pass by me, and 4♥ by LHO (no alert), pass by partner, 4♠by RHO, I asked for an explanation and was told it was Spades or TEXAS - I asked for a ruling by the director about the no alert - and was told in international rules there are no alerts after 3NT.

I agree that this is an international site - but the Directors from outside North America seem to be remiss in their knowledge of the ACBL and the SAYC system.

That puts the star players at an advantage and I was removed and not refunded for the game because the he meant international rules but not system.

I am sure that many of the players from around the world are playing SAYC and 2/1 as well as other systems - but the Directors will kill this site if they are ignorant of the rules.

Thankyou

[Cascade]

The no alert above 3NT is not designed for online play it is designed for face to face play where there are no screens.

The problem is that the alert in some cases is more likely to help the alerting side than their opponents.

Behind screens as far as I am aware there is no 'above 3NT' rule. I certainly always alert above 3NT behind screens.

The same should apply online where your partner cannot see your alert.

[glen]

macart, on Feb 5 2008, 07:30 PM, said:

...I was removed and not refunded for the game because the he meant international rules but not system.

Were you removed because you raised this issue to the TD, or what were your actions after the TD ruling?

[matmat]

sorry, but was there damage or were you just being nitpicky?

[Elianna]

matmat, on Feb 5 2008, 04:51 PM, said:

sorry, but was there damage or were you just being nitpicky?

I don't understand how there could possibly have been damage. The guy seems to be saying that he got the information before his turn to bid.

Quote

Were you removed because you raised this issue to the TD, or what were your actions after the TD ruling?

My question, too.

[matmat]

Elianna, on Feb 5 2008, 08:03 PM, said:

matmat, on Feb 5 2008, 04:51 PM, said:

sorry, but was there damage or were you just being nitpicky?

I don't understand how there could possibly have been damage. The guy seems to be saying that he got the information before his turn to bid.

i dunno... his p may have held ♥AKQJxxxx and thought they might play in 4♥ so he didn't double for lead...

[blackshoe]

iMO there ought to be some way to review the regulations in force in a tourney before you start playing. Of course, this would require the tourney provider to specify where one might do that.

[Elianna]

matmat, on Feb 5 2008, 05:07 PM, said:

Elianna, on Feb 5 2008, 08:03 PM, said:

matmat, on Feb 5 2008, 04:51 PM, said:

sorry, but was there damage or were you just being nitpicky?

I don't understand how there could possibly have been damage. The guy seems to be saying that he got the information before his turn to bid.

i dunno... his p may have held ♥AKQJxxxx and thought they might play in 4♥ so he didn't double for lead...

But shouldn't his partner then have been asking, not him?

[paulg]

The WBF Alerting Policy says "Any call at the four level or higher, with the exception of conventional calls on the first round of the auction" should not be alerted except when screens are in use.

So 'international rules' would suggest that this 4♥ bid should be alerted as it is a conventional call on the first round of the auction.

I also note the absence of Texas transfers in the ACBL's booklet on SAYC.

So my initial reaction is that a failure to alert is an infraction. Of course now we'd have to examine for damage.

Paul

[helene_t]

The director was wrong about this "above 3NT" thing. As Wayne(Cascade) says, the rule does not apply on BBO.

I wasn't aware that Texas was part of SAYC. Did the tourney rule state explicitly that SAYC calls are not alertable? What does it mean that SAYC is the "base" system? The ACBL tourneys give you a SAYC CC if you don't fill in the CC urself, and some tourneys allow only SAYC. But those are different issues.

[hrothgar]

Unfortunately, this posting comes across more like venting steam than any real attempt to get information. We're missing any number of crucial details including

1. The Conditions of Contest for the tournament in question
2. Any explanation how you might have been damaged by a failure to alert
3. Any explanation what knowledge about the ACBL or SAYC have to do with the events in question

[helene_t]

The Sky Club rules specify:
5. ALERT all conventional bids, non-standard bids and also when in doubt (standard assumed SAYC). Please, pre-alert any "Strong Club" systems, 1NT with range, different from 15-17 pts, your leads and carding methods.

Not sure what "standard assumed SAYC" is supposed to mean. Maybe it means that natural bids with a meaning different from that of SAYC should be alerted (weak NT, NFB and such). Anyway, conventional bids are explicitly alertable, so whether Texas is part of SAYC or not is irrelevant.

[mcphee]

I thought the rule was no alerts over the level of 3NT "providing" it is not in the first round of bidding.

For a player to cry the blues here because there was no alert seems a little odd. What did they want to do that was going to change anything? Lets remember this hand was not going to be on lead and could have requested an undo if they cared to dble for the lead.

Nit picking and looking for something for nothing are we?

[jillybean]

,,,

[jillybean]

macart, on Feb 5 2008, 05:30 PM, said:

I am sure that many of the players from around the world are playing SAYC and 2/1 as well as other systems - but the Directors will kill this site if they are ignorant of the rules.

Which rule(s) are you referring to here?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

#1 They should have alerted the texas transfer.
#2 Most likely it did not matter.

Quite often people dont understand, that a failure
to alert a given bid is not a big infraction in itself,
i.e. the failure to alert may only lead to a procedural
penalty, ... at best.
... unless the infraction causes the opponents to go
wrong.

At the club level, certain peoble start to nitpick other
players, because of the failure to alert, espesially if
they know, that an alert was in order.
People may change their agreements, ... but it happens
slowly at best, at least at club level.

This kind of behaviour makes me sick.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[matmat]

i dunno... the impression I get here is that the OP is looking for punishment for the opps for not alerting ,even though the presence or lack of alert had no bearing on the following auction or play.

i don't usually do this, but this is the same poster who a while ago accused starred players of ruining games. I sense a grudge.
http://forums.bridge...topic=21002&hl=