[han]

I had this hand in bidding practice:

---

Our auction was:

1D - 1S
3C - 4C
4S - 5C
5D - pass

Is this how you would have bid the hand too? Is 4S clearly natural?

[the hog]

Hannie, on Feb 1 2008, 07:45 AM, said:

I had this hand in bidding practice:

---

Our auction was:

1D - 1S
3C - 4C
4S - 5C
5D - pass

Is this how you would have bid the hand too? Is 4S clearly natural?

Since you ask, no! We would have used 1D 1S 2NT as an artificial game force and thus would not have to resort to manufacturing bids in fake suits. This appears to be a real problem in a 2/1 system unless you have some gadget available. I would have said C was the agreed suit.

[helene_t]

Agree with Ron. Btw responder rates not to have 5 spades, otherwise he would hardly have supported clubs directly. But ok, 4♠ in a 4-3 fit may still be worth a proposal.I would take 4♠ as a cuebid, though.

[Apollo81]

This is a reasonable auction. If I did not bid it this way, the only other option is to open 2♣ (which I believe would not be a majority expert view)

[han]

Oh, I guess I wasn't clear. I wasn't wondering how you would bid it in a strong club system or in a system where you have a neat gadget available for this kind of hand.

[Apollo81]

I really don't think 4♠ should be a cuebid here. Surely with a hand that wants to cue opener can find a red suit to cue over 4♣.

[jdonn]

Apollo81, on Jan 31 2008, 08:40 PM, said:

I really don't think 4♠ should be a cuebid here. Surely with a hand that wants to cue opener can find a red suit to cue over 4♣.

Isn't 4♦ clearly natural?

[rogerclee]

If I invent a suit to JS into, I always correct to my original suit at the first possibility, so I would rebid 4♦ to stop partner from supporting clubs. That said, I think 4♠ is clearly natural, usually showing 3154 (possibly 3055 and 3064).

[Apollo81]

jdonn, on Jan 31 2008, 08:42 PM, said:

Apollo81, on Jan 31 2008, 08:40 PM, said:

I really don't think 4♠ should be a cuebid here.  Surely with a hand that wants to cue opener can find a red suit to cue over 4♣.

Isn't 4♦ clearly natural?

Yes it is. Thatll teach me to post when drinking.

[han]

jdonn, on Jan 31 2008, 08:42 PM, said:

Apollo81, on Jan 31 2008, 08:40 PM, said:

I really don't think 4♠ should be a cuebid here.  Surely with a hand that wants to cue opener can find a red suit to cue over 4♣.

Isn't 4♦ clearly natural?

So what do you think Josh, is 4S a cuebid denying a heart cue? Is it natural? Does it guarantee that clubs is an honest suit?

[pclayton]

Matt and I have a nice structure here. We can show a hand with this strength, 6 good diamonds and 3 spades.

Not playing anything fancy, I think 4♠ is real support and makes 3♣ suspect.

[jdonn]

Hannie, on Jan 31 2008, 10:41 PM, said:

jdonn, on Jan 31 2008, 08:42 PM, said:

Apollo81, on Jan 31 2008, 08:40 PM, said:

I really don't think 4♠ should be a cuebid here.  Surely with a hand that wants to cue opener can find a red suit to cue over 4♣.

Isn't 4♦ clearly natural?

So what do you think Josh, is 4S a cuebid denying a heart cue? Is it natural? Does it guarantee that clubs is an honest suit?

I think it's a cuebid and that you are compelled to bid 4♦. But I'm not sure.

[han]

Jlall, on Feb 1 2008, 12:19 AM, said:

That being said, your hand is very good for this auction and you could easily miss a slam by bidding this way pretty easily. Bidding keycard then 6D actually has a lot of appeal to me even though it is pretty weird.

Yup. Partner had K10xx xx xx Kxxxx, 6D is very good and partner isn't bidding it.

[gwnn]

Jlall, on Feb 1 2008, 07:26 AM, said:

Hannie, on Feb 1 2008, 12:26 AM, said:

Jlall, on Feb 1 2008, 12:19 AM, said:

That being said, your hand is very good for this auction and you could easily miss a slam by bidding this way pretty easily. Bidding keycard then 6D actually has a lot of appeal to me even though it is pretty weird.

Yup. Partner had K10xx xx xx Kxxxx, 6D is very good and partner isn't bidding it.

obv I am the best EVA

that would be

http://tinyurl.com/gv9p4

[benlessard]

Im quite fond of fake jump-shifts (even in 3/2 cards majors). They usually are the cheapest forcing bid available so it make sense to used them to the maximum. However you need some common sense agreement to not go ashtray.

When to make JS in a fragment
1-GF 3 cards raises (are the more frequent) so its clear that 4S should be natural.
2- Long solid suits
3- balance hand with a wide open doubleton.

What i suggest is that any bypass of 3Nt is showing a raise or tolerance in partner 1st suit just a fit in 2nd suit isnt enough.

1D-----1S
3C-----???

3D im stuck, no h stoppers or fit in m without D tol
3H nat
3S nat
3Nt nat
4C clubs+ D tolerance

1S-----1Nt
3D-----???

3H im stuck
3S = H
3Nt nat
4C+= D fit +S tol

Playing standard method bypassing 3Nt without spades tol & even with 5 cards support for partner 2nd suit often lead to terrible results.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

#1 3C is ok, and most likely your only
game forcing bid.

#2 4S is certainly a cue bid, showing the Ace or
the King, so to answer your question, no it is not
natural, and not a suggestion to play 4S
Partner could / should have bid 3H or 3S, if he
had any interest in 3 card spade support

#3 I think, I would have prefered to bid
4D instead of 4S

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

jdonn, on Jan 31 2008, 08:42 PM, said:

Apollo81, on Jan 31 2008, 08:40 PM, said:

I really don't think 4♠ should be a cuebid here.  Surely with a hand that wants to cue opener can find a red suit to cue over 4♣.

Isn't 4♦ clearly natural?

No, ... at least not 100%.
It could be intended as a cue bid for clubs,
after all we have found a fit a fit.
But of course 4D shows a strong suit, call
it source of tricks, but the bid bid need not
be based a 6 carder.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Gerben42]

I'm very unfond (is that a word) of fake jumpshifts so I try to get anyone who I can convince to play some gadget that avoids the whole issue (and at hardly any cost too!).

The hand is a bit light for me to open 2♣, so your hand type is basically shoved under the carpet in anything close to "standard".

So now that you ask, this is probably how you bid the hand in standard. Lose 11.