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Who's To Blame Missed slam

Poll: Who's To Blame (23 member(s) have cast votes)

Who's To Blame

  1. 100% North (3 votes [13.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.04%

  2. Mostly North (7 votes [30.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.43%

  3. 50/50 (2 votes [8.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.70%

  4. Mostly South (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. 100% South (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. Nobody really to blame (11 votes [47.83%])

    Percentage of vote: 47.83%

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#21 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-February-01, 03:03

CSGibson, on Feb 1 2008, 03:05 AM, said:

3) If my partner is bidding game to make, then we are committed to either doubling them or bidding on when they bid over our (making) game.

Hi, I was with you until this point.

4H is a bid that can be made on something like xx KQJxx xxx Kxx or J QJxxx xx Kxxxx, I would bid it hoping to make (but aware that I might not make) because I have 5 good hearts and 3 diamonds, and I would expect partner to pass 3H on a lot of hands that make game cold. However, these hands don't have enough tricks on defense to X, and they are not hands I would want partner Xing 5D with if he had a random takeout X that didn't want to encourage a 5H bid. They are also not hands I would be willing to committ to bidding 5H with myself. It could still be their hand once they bid 5D, even though I was bidding 4H based on the thinking that I'd have a good shot to make it.

Basically both sides may have distribution, and on hands like this where you don't know who ownership of the deal belongs to you shouldn't be forced to double them if you don't want to bid on to the 5 level.
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#22 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-February-01, 03:05

Codo, on Feb 1 2008, 03:09 AM, said:

Jlall, on Feb 1 2008, 04:33 PM, said:

This is clearly NOT a forcing pass auction, as far as I'm concerned.
agree totally

So one simply forcing pass rule: "We freely bid game and they defend" does not apply here because....?

I think this is a horrible rule. That would make an auction like 1S p 2S 3H 4S 5H a forcing pass auction as well. Bridge is a competitive game and when both sides have a big fit you don't want to play a double or bid game, sometimes you have bid your hands aggressively because of your shape and done your job in pushing them to the 5 level.
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#23 User is offline   hotShot 

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Posted 2008-February-01, 03:12

Why was there no alert on 3♦?

We hold 25 HCP, opener should have 12+ HCP, so the 3♦ bid has 3- HCP. It should have been alerted.

What would north bid holding an 12 HCP 4414 shape?

If this would be a dbl too, then north should bid 6♥ because he has 5 HCP more than minimum and an extra trump.

Maybe my bidding methods need improvement, but my partner volunteered to jump to game. Why should he preempt over opps preemptive 3♦? We are NV and the scoring method is MP. So I do expect some defense from him for that 4♥ bid. I think most pickup partnerships would see that as a forcing pass situation.
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#24 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2008-February-01, 03:19

hotShot, on Feb 1 2008, 11:12 AM, said:

Why was there no alert on 3♦?

We hold 25 HCP, opener should have 12+ HCP, so the 3♦ bid has 3- HCP. It should have been alerted.

I don't understand this comment. what exactly do you think 3♦ promises, if unalerted? a limit raise?
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#25 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-February-01, 03:37

hotShot, on Feb 1 2008, 04:12 AM, said:

Why was there no alert on 3♦?

We hold 25 HCP, opener should have 12+ HCP, so the 3♦ bid has 3- HCP. It should have been alerted.

Hi, I don't know what country you're from but in the ACBL at least preemptive jumps are not alertable after an overcall or X.
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#26 User is offline   mikegill 

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Posted 2008-February-01, 10:00

Quote

We hold 25 HCP, opener should have 12+ HCP, so the 3♦ bid has 3- HCP. It should have been alerted.


I also don't know what game you've been playing, but opener definitely had her bid and definitely didn't have 12 HCP.

Actually the 3♦ bid was on a 4-count with 5-4 minors. Opener had AKQxxxx in diamonds and a J, and wasn't playing gambling 3n so opened 1♦.
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#27 User is offline   hotShot 

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Posted 2008-February-01, 11:22

Jlall, on Feb 1 2008, 11:37 AM, said:

Hi, I don't know what country you're from but in the ACBL at least preemptive jumps are not alertable after an overcall or X.

Cool! I will try to remember that.
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#28 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-February-01, 11:24

Codo, on Feb 1 2008, 03:09 AM, said:

Jlall, on Feb 1 2008, 04:33 PM, said:

This is clearly NOT a forcing pass auction, as far as I'm concerned.
agree totally

So one simply forcing pass rule: "We freely bid game and they defend" does not apply here because....?

Because it's a bad rule and one that I never use?
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#29 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2008-February-01, 12:49

If 4♥ does not establish a forcing situation over the opponents' 5♦, then the 5♥ bid shows extras does it not? South might see a slam with this bit of information.
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#30 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2008-February-01, 13:25

I'd never expect to be in a forcing position over 5♦. We just jumped to game, which doesn't promise power.
Kind regards,
Harald
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