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Scoring: XIMP
undisturbed bidding
1♦-1♠
3♣-3♦
3♥-3♠
4♦-5♣
all pass. NS agreements about this specific sequence "jump shift=GF"
Sub-moysian
#1
- Csaba the Hutt
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Posted 2008-January-27, 00:18
undisturbed bidding
1♦-1♠
3♣-3♦
3♥-3♠
4♦-5♣
all pass. NS agreements about this specific sequence "jump shift=GF"
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#2
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Posted 2008-January-27, 00:55
I would call it pretty disturbed myself.
It is certainly disturbing.
It is certainly disturbing.
#3
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Posted 2008-January-27, 01:16
What's disturbing? Easy to say but this is not an uncommon theme.
through 3S it was a good auction.
I don't like 4D, 4S seems clear to me.
5C is understandable but wrong I think, asking for disaster. Pass seems reasonable.
through 3S it was a good auction.
I don't like 4D, 4S seems clear to me.
5C is understandable but wrong I think, asking for disaster. Pass seems reasonable.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#4
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Posted 2008-January-27, 01:27
Looks like a misunderstanding of 3♥ to me.
South meant it as asking for a half-stopper in a possible false preference auction, and North took it as a cue bid with ♦ agreed.
South meant it as asking for a half-stopper in a possible false preference auction, and North took it as a cue bid with ♦ agreed.
#5 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2008-January-27, 02:06
Through 3S was fine, south has the absolute nut spade holding and has the easiest 4S bid ever to finish a very very good auction. 4D was bad.
The 3H-4D sequence COULD be just cuebidding (clear if you pull partners 3N bid). The question about what 5C is is interesting, I think if it's a cuebid north is overbidding with a pretty weak hand so he should bid 5D. South was obviously aware that north could have false preferenced with something like 2-4 in the minors so passed, but maybe north thought given his 3S bid he couldn't have 4 clubs since he would have bid 4C over 3H.
I really don't know, maybe in this position a cuebid is more logical but I would fall back on the meta agreement of "if it could be natural it is" and would say that its offering to play 5C.
The 3H-4D sequence COULD be just cuebidding (clear if you pull partners 3N bid). The question about what 5C is is interesting, I think if it's a cuebid north is overbidding with a pretty weak hand so he should bid 5D. South was obviously aware that north could have false preferenced with something like 2-4 in the minors so passed, but maybe north thought given his 3S bid he couldn't have 4 clubs since he would have bid 4C over 3H.
I really don't know, maybe in this position a cuebid is more logical but I would fall back on the meta agreement of "if it could be natural it is" and would say that its offering to play 5C.
#6
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Posted 2008-January-27, 02:10
3♣ was a big overbid, 4♦ I don't understand at all rather than 4♠, and 5♣ seems like clearly a cuebid to me so south shouldn't pass, although it was a big overbid in that case. Overall I blame mostly south.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#7 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2008-January-27, 02:11
jdonn, on Jan 27 2008, 03:10 AM, said:
3♣ was a big overbid
yes didn't notice this, agree. Still think the auction after 3C up to 3S was very good though, and 4S by south woulda gotten them to a nice spot.
#8 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2008-January-27, 02:13
jdonn, on Jan 27 2008, 03:10 AM, said:
and 5♣ seems like clearly a cuebid to me so south shouldn't pass
Josh I thought this initially but then I thought I might bid KJxxx xx Qx xxxx like this. Would you bid 4C over 3H with this (it seems like you might want to try to get to a 5-2 fit with this hand)? Do you think this is a reasonable way to bid this hand?
#9
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Posted 2008-January-27, 02:20
Jlall, on Jan 27 2008, 03:13 AM, said:
jdonn, on Jan 27 2008, 03:10 AM, said:
and 5♣ seems like clearly a cuebid to me so south shouldn't pass
Josh I thought this initially but then I thought I might bid KJxxx xx Qx xxxx like this. Would you bid 4C over 3H with this (it seems like you might want to try to get to a 5-2 fit with this hand)? Do you think this is a reasonable way to bid this hand?
That might want to bid that way but it's just one specific example and other hands would want the other meaning. I don't see preferring partner's first suit (even perhaps falsely), then rebidding your own suit, then a week later saying sorry I really have a fit in your second suit all along!
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#10
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Posted 2008-January-27, 06:21
Jlall, on Jan 27 2008, 05:13 PM, said:
jdonn, on Jan 27 2008, 03:10 AM, said:
and 5♣ seems like clearly a cuebid to me so south shouldn't pass
Josh I thought this initially but then I thought I might bid KJxxx xx Qx xxxx like this. Would you bid 4C over 3H with this (it seems like you might want to try to get to a 5-2 fit with this hand)? Do you think this is a reasonable way to bid this hand?
The bidding started with:
1 ♦ 1 ♠
3 ♣
Why do you want to bid 3 ♦ in a gameforcing auction with
KJxxx xx Qx xxxx ?
3 Spade or 3 Heart are much better bids with this hand.
So there is no sense in bid 5 Club after 4 Diamond naturally.
Besides, in the given bidding, I dislike 3 Club and 4 Diamond for the reasons already mentioned.
Kind Regards
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
#11 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2008-January-27, 06:30
Codo, on Jan 27 2008, 07:21 AM, said:
The bidding started with:
1 ♦ 1 ♠
3 ♣
Why do you want to bid 3 ♦ in a gameforcing auction with
KJxxx xx Qx xxxx ?
1 ♦ 1 ♠
3 ♣
Why do you want to bid 3 ♦ in a gameforcing auction with
KJxxx xx Qx xxxx ?
Yes this is a 100 % normal bid. I know the most misunderstood auctions by weak players are jumpshift auctions; they are very complicated, but bidding 3S with this is horrible.
#12
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Posted 2008-January-27, 07:24
I strongly dislike the 3♣ bid. This is an easy 2♣ rebid IMO. And 4♦ comes in the same category, 3♠ is far better now - you have a superb holding in the suit after this sequence.
Kind regards,
Harald
Harald
#13
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Posted 2008-January-27, 08:42
I don't like 3♣, 3♥ or 4♦, with 4♦ probably the worst because 4♠ seems so obvious in that auction, but it really never should have gotten to that point.
I don't think this is a case of players not understanding jump shift auctions.
Shift a few HCP and the auction might wel have started:
1♦-1♠
2♣-2♦
2♥-2♠
3♦-4♣
with the same sort of confusion. I think it is preference bidding that players do not understand.
I don't think this is a case of players not understanding jump shift auctions.
Shift a few HCP and the auction might wel have started:
1♦-1♠
2♣-2♦
2♥-2♠
3♦-4♣
with the same sort of confusion. I think it is preference bidding that players do not understand.
#14
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Posted 2008-January-27, 15:22
What's wrong with 3H?
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#15
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Posted 2008-January-27, 15:31
Agree with Han.
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Posted 2008-January-27, 18:42
Hannie, on Jan 27 2008, 04:22 PM, said:
What's wrong with 3H?
I would prefer 3♠: I've got a pretty good holding there. But, I don't think 3♠ promises 3154 (or 3055).
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Posted 2008-January-27, 19:21
Why is 3♣ horrible?
I thought the requirements are 19-21 total points (HCP + Length) and isn't taht what South has?
Admitedly the Jx in hearts may be worthless
What am I misunderstanding?
> I know the most misunderstood auctions by weak players are jumpshift auctions; they are very complicated,
Any further comments on typical Jumpshift mistakes?
I thought the requirements are 19-21 total points (HCP + Length) and isn't taht what South has?
Admitedly the Jx in hearts may be worthless
What am I misunderstanding?
> I know the most misunderstood auctions by weak players are jumpshift auctions; they are very complicated,
Any further comments on typical Jumpshift mistakes?
#18
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Posted 2008-January-27, 19:33
3♣ is poor because the South isn't worth a GF. If pard can't take a call over 2♣, you don't have game.
I think a normal auction has the bidding starting 1♦ - 1♠ - 2♣ - 2♦ - 3♦. North might take another call, but thats dubious.
I think a normal auction has the bidding starting 1♦ - 1♠ - 2♣ - 2♦ - 3♦. North might take another call, but thats dubious.
"Phil" on BBO
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Posted 2008-January-27, 23:32
Quote
Through 3S was fine, south has the absolute nut spade holding and has the easiest 4S bid ever to finish a very very good auction. 4D was bad.
The 3H-4D sequence COULD be just cuebidding (clear if you pull partners 3N bid).
The 3H-4D sequence COULD be just cuebidding (clear if you pull partners 3N bid).
I have no problem with 3C (GF JS) or a 2C rebid. If you tend to respond light then 3C is probably an overbid. 4D instead of 4S isnt only a bad bid its an atrocious bid.
5C is natural to play since 3D is a catch all bid (doesnt show D fit in my book and could be false preference)
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
#20
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Posted 2008-January-28, 01:18
pclayton, on Jan 27 2008, 08:33 PM, said:
I think a normal auction has the bidding starting 1♦ - 1♠ - 2♣ - 2♦ - 3♦. North might take another call, but thats dubious.
I disagree, 3♦ should show 6-4. South's third bid is a matter of style, either 2♥ or 2♠.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.