[pclayton]

Matt and I had an expensive misunderstanding (I take 100% credit btw) in a tg tonight.

Here's a sequence:

(1♠) pass (2♠) 3♦
(pass) 3♠ (pass)..?

Question 1. Does 3♠ promise a fit? Tolerance? neither?

Question 2A. What is 4♣ by the 3♦ bidder?
.............2B. What is 4♥?

[jdonn]

I don't think 3S promises a fit but it will usually have one since it doesn't seem to have a good 5 card suit (pass over 1S with a good hand), and doesn't seem to have a spade stopper (no 3N over 3D). I suppose something like xxx KQx Ax Axxxx is possible or possibly xxx KQxx Ax QJxx if you don't make t/o Xs with this hand type. It seems like all other hand types will have a diamond fit.

4H over 3S is obviously natural, trying to find a 4-4 fit. 4C is obviously natural, trying to find a fit.

[Codo]

Without discussion I had taken 4 of a new suit as a control with a strong hand in the context of the bidding so far.
To say: 3 Spade normaly has a Diamond fit and 4 ♣/♥ are looking for another place to play sounds wrong. I think it is either or and that 3 Spade normaly establishs a fit.

[FrancesHinden]

what's up with all these "problems" recently?

4H and 4C are both natural.
3S shows a diamond fit (note that in this sequence Hx is a fit, though I would usually expect a third one).

[Halo]

3S would be a pleasant surprise for me, showing an invitational raise in diamonds.

Four hearts is an alternative contract, and four clubs is natural, a sort of a long suit game try.

[Apollo81]

3♠ shows tolerance. I cannot imagine any hand without tolerance that would not act over 1♠ and would bid, but not bid 3NT over 3♦.

4♣/♥ are natural and NF.

[cherdano]

FrancesHinden, on Jan 11 2008, 03:14 AM, said:

what's up with all these "problems" recently?

4H and 4C are both natural.
3S shows a diamond fit (note that in this sequence Hx is a fit, though I would usually expect a third one).

Indeed.

[dake50]

1. Surely looking for 4-4H is in.
Surely D-fit in.
Surely S-control knowing what next is in.

2. 4H =Found 4-4H.
4C =general come on - a counter cue asking 'what you doing over there?' I got good stuff as no 4D.

[ArtK78]

FrancesHinden, on Jan 11 2008, 04:14 AM, said:

what's up with all these "problems" recently?

4H and 4C are both natural.
3S shows a diamond fit (note that in this sequence Hx is a fit, though I would usually expect a third one).

I agree.

The 3♠ bidder cannot have a great hand from his failure to bid in direct seat over 1♠ and his failure to bid 3NT now. So he must have a fit.

All subsequent bids are natural.

[pclayton]

Well, I don't think you can answer B without a firm agreement on A. If 3♠ does not promise a fit, then 4♣ and 4♥ should be natural. That's pretty obvious to me

If 3♠ promised a fit, then I think its more dubious that 4♣ is natural and suggesting an alternate strain.

If 2N is two places to play over 2♠ (isn't that relevant here?), it also discounts this possibility.

I do agree that 3♠ doesn't promise a fit. Otherwise you are stuck with a bid holding a very generic hand like: ♠xxxx ♥AKxx ♦Kx ♣Axx. But this sequence is one of the rare cases where a cue bid in response to an overcall does not promise a fit for partner, assuming you play transfer advances in many sequences.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 it promises at least tolerance, after
all, what does he want to do if 4D
comes back and it gets xed?
#2 a 2nd suit, should show something
like 6-4, and deny a spade stopper

With kind regards
Marlowe

[cherdano]

Even if 3♠ promises a 3-card fit and 2N is available for two-suiters, 4♣ is still natural.

[Halo]

pclayton, on Jan 11 2008, 11:56 AM, said:

I do agree that 3♠ doesn't promise a fit. Otherwise you are stuck with a bid holding a very generic hand like: ♠xxxx ♥AKxx ♦Kx ♣Axx. But this sequence is one of the rare cases where a cue bid in response to an overcall does not promise a fit for partner, assuming you play transfer advances in many sequences.

Agree with whom?

Do we get the hand.

[pclayton]

Halo, on Jan 11 2008, 12:41 PM, said:

pclayton, on Jan 11 2008, 11:56 AM, said:

I do agree that 3♠ doesn't promise a fit. Otherwise you are stuck with a bid holding a very generic hand like: ♠xxxx ♥AKxx ♦Kx ♣Axx. But this sequence is one of the rare cases where a cue bid in response to an overcall does not promise a fit for partner, assuming you play transfer advances in many sequences.

Agree with whom?

Do we get the hand.

No you don't get the hand. It was a total disaster, quite possibly the worst thing I've ever perpetuated at the table in the last year.

I'm agreeing with everyone that states 3♠ does not promise a fit.