[sceptic]

[font=Courier]

Scoring: IMP

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West North East South

 -     2♦    Pass  2NT
 4NT   Pass  5♣    5♥
 Pass  Pass  Dbl   RDbl
 Pass  Pass  Pass  

2 diamonds alerted multi major
2nt was alerted as asking
4nt alerted minors
no further alerts

[jtfanclub]

With or without the random guesses as to what each bid meant?

[helene_t]

The auction is fine IMHO.

[ArtK78]

helene_t, on Jan 9 2008, 01:06 PM, said:

The auction is fine IMHO.

This is a joke, right?

[kfay]

Depends on what level 2NT is forcing to. I doubt this is a forcing pass situation for anyone but I'd double to suggest defending.

In any case redouble is idiotic.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

the auction up to 5C is ok
I am not sure, I would bid 4NT myself,
I think 3NT is enough, assuming it has
a similar meaning.
I would have doubled as South, you cant
be sure that 5H makes, but you will beat
5C, and most likely at least -2, and on
average -3, i.e. you may get 500 instead
of 600, but you may get a plus, even if 5H
fails.
Having bid 5H, I would not make the XX,
the bid is ..., you cant be sure, that you are
-1 at best with a 50% chance of making, so
Pass.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[paulg]

2♦ is a multi-2♦ opener presumably by a non-North American player.

2NT will be a forcing relay.

4NT shows both minors, probably not a bid I'd make myself but each to his own. I strongly disagree with Marlowe in that 3NT by West should be natural here.

South has a tough call now. If South is a North American then I can understand the 5♥ call and redouble, otherwise the redouble is poor and the 5♥ call debatable - Marlowe covers this well.

Paul

PS I'm not racist but the North Americans typically have far higher standards for their weak twos than the Europeans.

[655321]

Obviously 5♥ and redouble are horrible. How can you be confident of making 11 tricks opposite a weak 2?
Why wouldn't you be pleased to double 5♣?
I don't get it.

[inquiry]

Some people would have doubled 4NT as NORTH indicating a desire to double one of the two possible contracts... rather than bidding on. Such a double would have been useful here if you played it, and surely 5♣ would have ended up being doubled in that case.

[jtfanclub]

Quote

2♦ is a multi-2♦ opener presumably by a non-North American player.

For which this is...an average hand? Minimum? Sub minimum?

I have no idea what non-North American standards are. At my club, first hand, vulnerable vs. not, the opening is somewhere between sub minimum and "Whoops, look at the time".

Quote

2NT will be a forcing relay.

Why 2NT? If this is a 'normal' weak 2 for them, why not respond 4♣? South's hand is missing three keycards and probably has a slow loser in each pointy suit. It does not scream '25 hcp slam' to me. If you bid 4♣, you've shown your hand in one bid, you can pass 5♣ and let partner decide whether to go offence or defence. I'm guessing defence. Besides, 2NT reveals way too much information.

[helene_t]

jtfanclub, on Jan 9 2008, 10:11 PM, said:

Quote

2♦ is a multi-2♦ opener presumably by a non-North American player.

For which this is...an average hand? Minimum? Sub minimum?

II would say minimum, or maybe between minimum and average.

I like Ben's suggestion, a double by North on 4NT would have been helpful.

[P_Marlowe]

sceptic, on Jan 9 2008, 02:50 PM, said:

so 4nt non vuln against vuln is not a good bid?

Make the Ace of spades the Ace of clubs,
and the bid becomes better, although one
should still pass.

The main problem is, you dont know, if
they have game, for all you know, they
may stop in 3H / 3S, and 5C / 5D is a long
way to go, and you cant even be sure you
have a 8 card fit, i.e. you allow them to get
300 for free, if they would have stopped in
a partial. And sometimes game makes, but
they dont bid it, happens, even if they are real
experts.

Assume for a moment 4H comes back
to you, now you know, that you are sacrificing
against game, of course holding 2 tricks in your hand,
and the trump suit breaking badly (partner may be
sitting on a 5 card heart suit) you will have a fair
chance of beating the contract, at least sometimes,
hence you should still pass.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[lexlogan]

4NT seems excessive to me -- too much defense, relatively little offense for the five level. 4♥ goes down, as does 5♣, and that seems predictable looking at West's hand. I really get tired of partners who sacrifice with defensive hands. 5-5 in the minors would be fine for an unusual 2NT, of course; I'd want at least 6-5 with more concentrated strength and more fillers in the suits before venturing 4NT, even NV vs. V.

4NT worked brilliantly, of course, either because South was even more clueless about level or because he expected a two-of-top-three weak two. Even then, the bad heart break should hardly be a shock given West's 4NT bid.