[inquiry]

Note this problem is 1) poorly laid out, and 2) the solution is cooked (not needed) as noted by rtewari anyway....).. certainly this is one of my worse post... In my defense, I may have the missing two hands wrong... I got this from the myhands site and the recent crash doesn't allow me to go back and check what SOUTH and EAST actually held..... - ben

Dealer: East Vul: Both Scoring: Imps

♠ AJT542 ♥ ♦ T2 ♣ AJ943 ♠ Q9763 ♥ K983 ♦ 9 ♣ K85

T1. ♥K-♦2-♥2-♥4 T2. ♠A-♠8-♥5-♠3 T3. ♠4-♠K-♦3-♠6 T4. ♣7..?

West

Spoiler

--

North

Spoiler

-

East

Spoiler

-

You
1♠

Spoiler

-----

2♥

Spoiler

----

3♦

Spoiler

---

3♥
4♣

Spoiler

-----

4♥

Spoiler

----

5♦

Spoiler

---

all pass

[inquiry]

Lol.. I love the votes so far. Yes, a trump lead at trick one might have been the best option (but who knows, it might not have been the best choice after all). I expected anyone who voted for an option other than playing the ♣K, 8 or 5 (the only real choices) would explain why playing they think playing the card they played was the right option... for instance if they play the ♣8 to give "count" to show odd... that is fine, but on this hand, the east west where playing standard count and attitude...

Ben

[luis]

North doesn't bid after East, I think something is wrong :-) I can't understand the bidding.

[inquiry]

Thanks luis

Rotating hands so you are south for these defensive thingee's is always tough for me... I am use to south always being declarer instead of you always being south. :-(

Hope I got it right now... your LHO opens 1♠ and your partner overcalls 2♥ and you are on lead against 5♦... This diagram looks like the hand with all the black cards (dummy) is north, but by BBO convention the problem hand (your hand) is always south, that makes what looks like north in this case be right dummy, or West. My bad, I have corrected (I hope) the bidding to be correct.

Ben

[luis]

inquiry, on Feb 23 2004, 02:54 PM, said:

Thanks luis

Rotating hands so you are south for these defensive thingee's is always tough for me... I am use to south always being declarer instead of you always being south. :-(

Hope I got it right now... your LHO opens 1♠ and your partner overcalls 2♥ and you are on lead against 5♦... This diagram looks like the hand with all the black cards (dummy) is north, but by BBO convention the problem hand (your hand) is always south, that makes what looks like north in this case be right dummy, or West. My bad, I have corrected (I hope) the bidding to be correct.

Ben

Well maybe I'm dumb I still don't get it.

In the diagram to me south is always at the bottom, so if west (my LHO) opens 1s and pd bids 2h what the hell is 3d with a doubleton ?
Sorry If I don't get it :-(

[inquiry]

Quote

Well maybe I'm dumb I still don't get it.

In the diagram to me south is always at the bottom, so if west (my LHO) opens 1s and pd bids 2h what the hell is 3d with a doubleton ?
Sorry If I don't get it :-(

You are certainly not dumb Luis, rather it is me still struggling with how to show defensive hands on the BBO is an standard format. This was the topic of a thread in which JRG, Gerardo and I were discussing which way to show a dummy.. that is in dummy left, which two hands are shown... should it be North and East (remember can only see two hands), or South and West? (or west and north, etc)... see the following post and replies...
http://bridgebase.lunarpages.com/~bridge2/...indpost&p=14101

Gerardo, who did wonderful job with the hand inputs, viewed the poster/question hand as always south... so for him, the options are post the hand where a reply is needed as south. My presentation is wrong... but I thought it made sense at the time... Here are the three ways to try to show this.. I am still sticking the hand I think on defense on the left... (compare option 1 with option 2 and 3).

Option one

Dealer: East Vul: Both Scoring: Imps

♠ AJT542 ♥ ♦ T2 ♣ AJ943 ♠ Q9763 ♥ K983 ♦ 9 ♣ K85

T1. ♥K-♦2-♥2-♥4 T2. ♠A-♠8-♥5-♠3 T3. ♠4-♠K-♦3-♠6 T4. ♣7..?

1♠

Spoiler

-----

2♥

Spoiler

----

3♦

Spoiler

---

3♥
4♣

Spoiler

-----

4♥

Spoiler

----

5♦

Spoiler

---

all pass

Ok. although I view the hand above with ♥king as south, the shown position might be read as WEST. IF you could view this hand as south, then the hand to the left (and above) as West. This is the way I viewed it, but once again this is equally confusing...

Maybe the clearest way to show the situation is the following way with all four positions clearly shown. Note the releative position of the hands in option one to option 2 is the same, but the location of South and West is clear, as all four compass positions are shown.

Option two
West

Spoiler

--

North

Spoiler

-

East

Spoiler

-

You

T1. ♥K-♦2-♥2-♥4
T2. ♠A-♠8-♥5-♠3
T3. ♠4-♠K-♦3-♠6
T4. ♣7..?

---

West

Spoiler

--

North

Spoiler

-

East

Spoiler

-

You
1♠

Spoiler

-----

2♥

Spoiler

----

3♦

Spoiler

---

3♥
4♣

Spoiler

-----

4♥

Spoiler

----

5♦

Spoiler

---

all pass

Now I think position 3 (below) is what Gerardo had in mind... the layout where south is always on the bottom and in the middle. This is how I should have presented it... I am old and slow to learn. Hopefully, this second exercise to think about how the presentation should look will get me to figure it out correctly. Thanks for helping me clarify this in my own mind. The third layout is clearly the better of the three....the problem is my mental block over having a layout where it looks like WEST is on lead.... when playing defense. My bad.

Scoring: Imps

T1. ♥K-♦2-♥2-♥4
T2. ♠A-♠8-♥5-♠3
T3. ♠4-♠K-♦3-♠6
T4. ♣7..?

---

Ben

[luis]

As long as I can help I'm happy.
Now if the diagram is ok there's is something strange on the play.
South (me) leads the hK, ruffed with the d2 in dummy.
Now dummy leads the spade ace, 8 from pd, declarer discards the h5 and I (south) play the spade 2, a card that I don't have (Q9763).
Something wrong with the spade spots?

[inquiry]

luis, on Feb 23 2004, 11:44 AM, said:

As long as I can help I'm happy.
Now if the diagram is ok there's is something strange on the play.
South (me) leads the hK, ruffed with the d2 in dummy.
Now dummy leads the spade ace, 8 from pd, declarer discards the h5 and I (south) play the spade 2, a card that I don't have (Q9763).
Something wrong with the spade spots?

Spots hopefully fixed... Your partner has ♠K4.. declarer none....

[Trpltrbl]

Ok, I normally go directly to add reply but this time I actually had to go through some replies to see what was going on with bidding. I got it now, thought I went insane. We have to hope pd has some ♦ tricks and possibly a ♣ trick. I won't get in too many times, if at all. So I will duck the ♣ trick, pd needs to have the 10 with the Q. And when pd get's in he/she can see what needs to be done, either trump switch or tapping dummy in ♥.

Mike

[Free]

OK, after the intermezzo of Ben, I finally see how the hand is positioned - tnx...

As for the play: I'll play low, but I suspect the 8 or the K will be better, otherwise it wouldn't be an 'interesting bridge hand'...

[inquiry]

Free, on Feb 24 2004, 07:43 AM, said:

As for the play: I'll play low, but I suspect the 8 or the K will be better, otherwise it wouldn't be an 'interesting bridge hand'...

Right you are, of course. Partner gave "count" (well the ♥2 could have been the closest to his finger)... but declearer clearly had at zero ♠ and has at least 7♦ and maybe more. If declarer had two ♥, he would have thrown his second away like he did, and then played on ♦s.

But anyway, what is declarer up to? If he has ♣Q you are not winning a ♣ trick, rather you play low or not. And if partner has the Queen, you will win one rather you play low or not. But what if declerer has another ♥ to ruff (we suspect he does), why play ♣?

Declarerer must be (might be) trying to pull off a trump coup, and needs two club entries to dummy. The hand you are concerned about should be something like this...

---

If you play low, dummy wins the JACK, another ♠ is ruffed, a ♥ is ruffed in dummy, and ♠ from dummy. If partner ruffs, declerer overruffs. Plays ♦A, and loses just two red cards. If partner pitches, he ruffs low, and exits with his ♥.

So the correct answer is play the ♣K.. not to fool declearer into playing you for the ♣Q (although on some hands it might have that effect), but to deny a second ♣ entry on hands where he is trying to shorten his trumps for a trump coupe... .and if partner has the ♣Q? He will get it later anyway. I think the ♣K is clearly required.

Ben

[rtewari]

Declarer does not need a trump coup. It really does not matter whether you put up the king or not.

Suppose, you play the king. Declarer wins the Ace, ruffs a spade, cashes club queen, ruffs a heart, ruffs a club/spade back in hand and exits a heart. So far declarer has collected 2 heart ruffs in dummy, 2 club winners, spade ace and three ruffs in hand and has conceded a heart. Assuming declarer ruffed a club back to hand and picthed a spade from dummy on the last trick, this is the last 4 card ending with east/west on play.

---

On any return declarer will ruff and exit a low diamond and claim last 2 trump tricks.

Secondly, declarer if really needed an extra entry to dummy could have simply played club queen from hand which you are forced to cover, otherwise a heart will get pitched on the third club and then declarer has only 2 trump losers.

Thirdly, the bidding does not make much sense in the context of the given hands. Partner having already made a vulnerable overcall has hardly anything extra to bid 4 hearts. In fact has hand is all negative - KJx of diamond under, 3 small clubs. You will definitely tend to place pard with more hearts. Also with misfit with partner and holding 4 hearts declarer has a very dubious 5 diamond bid. On the given hand a double would have fetched his side 800. While defending (assuming sane pard/opps), the real chance is if we can get 2 club tricks in addition to a trump trick. Playing the king will cost a trick if declarer has 3 small and partner has QT doubleton.